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 Rank: Semi-Pro Level 2  Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/04/2014 Posts: 99 Points: 303 Location: Perth, Western Australia
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G'day folks. I have an enquiry associated with the lower deck and whether it should be level (flat) in the vertical plain when viewed from the side? I have just commenced with the laying and pinning of the lower deck (Issues #11 & #12). Up to this point I had not glued the ribs to the keel (they were dry fit until the deck was laid). I commenced the laying of the lower deck sections (Items #31 & #32) without any problem and the ribs are square. When viewing my handy work from side on I realised that the lower deck was undulating in height. The worst parts at this stage are at frames #13 & #15. These frames are pushed as far as they will go into the keel slots. However, frame #15 is lower than the apparent even level by about 2mm. I can correct this by moving frame #15 upwards. Even though this will create a corresponding 2mm offset in position from the keel, I would consider that this can be remedied by gluing a planking strip to the bottom part of the rib and even it out when it comes to faring all of the ribs prior to laying the first planks. So, essentially my enquiry is, should the lower deck sections #31 & #32 be completely level (flat) along frames #5 to #21. Acknowledge that the lower deck section #33 increases in elevation from frame #21 to #26. Once I have this resolved I can complete the laying of the lower deck then begin to align the rib frames with wooden blocks (as per Issue #9). Pictures of the problem at hand are provided to aid in this problem. Your assistance and guidance with this enquiry is greatfully appreciated. (or please point me to a corresponding / related post) Regards, Adam AdamHall attached the following image(s):
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 Rank: Vice-Master   Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/03/2014 Posts: 516 Points: 1,563 Location: Perth Western Australia
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Hi Adam.  There is a natural gentle bow when 1st deck fitted. It slopes down very slightly from the bow to around 15 then fairly level and up again slightly from about 20/21. The decking is not meant to be dead level. When the second deck comes it too raises considerably more at the stern than the 1st decking and slightly to the bow. If you ensure all your rib frame bottoms are dead level with the false keel bottom they should be in correct position and you get that gentle bow over the full length. Someone more experienced than me will probably confirm what I'm saying. Hope that is of some help to you. Regards George Building HMS SOTS
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Rank: Semi-Pro Level 2 Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/04/2014 Posts: 99 Points: 303 Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Hi George, Thanks for the reply. For each of the lower deck sections from fwd to aft: Frame 5 to 13 slopes downward (-0.7 degrees) Frame 13 to 21 slopes upwards (+0.4 degrees) Frame 21 to 26 slopes upwards (+2.4 degrees) The frames 13 to 21 I readjusted so that the deck was flat. I still had to raise frame 15 by about 2mm to achieve this. All rib frames are pushed as far to the base of the keel as they can go. I don't really want to pull the thing apart in order to make a keyway slot deeper unless absolutely necessary). I'm just not too sure whether the amount of slope required is within allowable limits (or I am looking into this too much  ). Thanks again for looking in. Regards, Adam
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 Rank: Super-Elite      Groups: Registered
Joined: 04/04/2010 Posts: 3,955 Points: 11,809 Location: uk
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hi, there is a bow in the decks,provided you ensured that all the ribs slotted into the false keel all the way down you will have the right curvature in the deck. Current builds: SotS, USS Consitution, San Felipe, D51 loco, HMS Surprise, RB7, Arab Dhow, Jotika HMS Victory Completed builds: HMS Pickel, Thermopylae, Mississipi river boat, Mary Rose, Cutty Sark, San Francisco II, HMS Victory x5, Titanic Lifeboat, Panart HMS Victory Launch, Hachette Titanic, Virginia Schooner, Endeavour Longboat. http://www.model-space.com/gb/
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Hi Adam, from what I can see I don't think you have any problems.... As long as you have ensured the ribs are fully seated then everything will be fine.....  .. Carry on as you are, you are doing a great job..... Regards Alan
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/03/2014 Posts: 516 Points: 1,563 Location: Perth Western Australia
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AdamHall wrote:Hi George, Thanks for the reply. For each of the lower deck sections from fwd to aft: Frame 5 to 13 slopes downward (-0.7 degrees) Frame 13 to 21 slopes upwards (+0.4 degrees) Frame 21 to 26 slopes upwards (+2.4 degrees) The frames 13 to 21 I readjusted so that the deck was flat. I still had to raise frame 15 by about 2mm to achieve this. All rib frames are pushed as far to the base of the keel as they can go. I don't really want to pull the thing apart in order to make a keyway slot deeper unless absolutely necessary). I'm just not too sure whether the amount of slope required is within allowable limits (or I am looking into this too much ). Thanks again for looking in. Regards, Adam Hi Adam. I'm glad more experienced builders came in to reply to your questions and with relief confirmed what I told you. The problems would have compounded if you had raised 15 by say 2mm, you would find that your planking later would be in by 2 mm on bottom as a depression following the ribs. The sides of rib would be out of line re shape and when you came to put beam for second deck on that rib it would be up in the air 2 mm higher than those next to it. So the less of the evil is to have the slightly bowed deck. I know it is slightly confusing as I too wondered at that point in time if I was going down the right track with having a gentle bow. Regards George Building HMS SOTS
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Rank: Semi-Pro Level 2 Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/04/2014 Posts: 99 Points: 303 Location: Perth, Western Australia
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George, Karl & Alan,
Thank you for looking in and providing your reply.
I will cut and dry fit the section of dummy gun support beam that will attach to the middle lower deck #32 and position the gun support beam against the upper sections of the corresponding ribs that will contain the next deck sections. This will assure me that the curvature gap is the same all the way up the ribs.
Its just that from the pictures I have seen from the Official build diary (and other members builds) the centre dummy gun support beam looks flush along the length of the lower deck section #32.
I go to Stained Glass classes on Wednesday nights so I will check this on Thursday night.
Cheers,
Adam
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/03/2014 Posts: 516 Points: 1,563 Location: Perth Western Australia
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AdamHall wrote:George, Karl & Alan,
Thank you for looking in and providing your reply.
I will cut and dry fit the section of dummy gun support beam that will attach to the middle lower deck #32 and position the gun support beam against the upper sections of the corresponding ribs that will contain the next deck sections. This will assure me that the curvature gap is the same all the way up the ribs.
Its just that from the pictures I have seen from the Official build diary (and other members builds) the centre dummy gun support beam looks flush along the length of the lower deck section #32.
I go to Stained Glass classes on Wednesday nights so I will check this on Thursday night.
Cheers,
Adam Hi Adam. If I read you correctly your talking about the pieces that fit on top of the first deck and fit first central I think from memory half way across rib 13 then up to half way across rib 21. Then you progressively fit the other pieces after cutting lengths for both ends. They do curve inwards on the bottoms against the rib shape recess. I can't see you having any problems here if you follow the directions as such. Mine went into the recesses as should do without problems. Just watch where you have to cut into the pieces to get the curve at the ends not to cut too deep or could break off and no spare pieces left to rectify. While there is overs on the beams for 2nd deck if you use same pieces for two ribs at bow and stern there is no room for mistakes in the dummy backboards. Hope that helps. Regards George Building HMS SOTS
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