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 Rank: Beginner Level 3 Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/07/2010 Posts: 25 Points: 68 Location: Dunstable, UK
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During the earlier part of my project I built the anchor according to the magazine instructions...using the thread to simulate the metal bands. After looking at a few pics of the real Victory I noticed that the anchor is black so I painted it. As the thread is quit thin the metal bands did not really stand out so I purchased some brass strips from my local model shop to make the bands. I think the result looks much more authentic (I will post some pics when I get my camera sorted!).
I placed the anchor next to my finished launch and it seems that the anchor is about 2/3 the length of the launch. As the launch is about 34 feet in length (or so I understand) this would make the anchor about 20 feet. Is the anchor really this large or is the kit scaling a bit off the mark?
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 Rank: Elite       Groups: Registered
Joined: 22/03/2010 Posts: 2,065 Points: 6,295 Location: Gorleston-on-sea
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Hi mate...the anchors are certainly large. The larger and heaviest of the two weighing 4 tons...  Current Builds: Deagostini HMS Victory: Deagostini HMS Sovereign of the seas. Completed Builds: Del Prado: HMAS Bounty: Hachette: RMS Titanic: Del Prado: Cutty Sark...
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Rank: Beginner Level 3 Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/07/2010 Posts: 25 Points: 68 Location: Dunstable, UK
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As the weekend just gone was a bank holiday I thought I would take myself and my better half down to see the actual 'thing' itself at Pompy. The weather was good and we had marvellous day. I had a good look at the anchor...its b****y huge so I think the kit scaling is about right. The only things I noticed were that the stock is round and not square as supplied in the kit and the wooden ends are rounded.
Also wanted to see the Mary Rose hull but is it not on display at the moment...shame
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 Rank: Vice-Master  Groups: Registered
Joined: 19/03/2010 Posts: 602 Points: 1,679 Location: Lincs
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Hope this helps anyone that needs it  You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
Built:
Golden Star, English Brig. RMS Titanic. (Academy 1/400 Centenary Anniversary Edition) Revell-Monogram 1/48 B-29 Superfortress 1:8 Baron von Richthofen's Fokker Tri-plane. HMS Victory. Nelsons Flag Ship. Sultan Arab Dhow. Artesania Latina Carmen II. The Battleship Yamato. Model Airways Wright Flyer 1:16 Scale. Trumpeter Bismarck 1/200. HMS Sovereign of the Seas. The Black Pearl.
Building:HMS Surprisel. Hatchette U96. Soleil Royal.
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beware the anchors on the victory are replicas not the real thing. however there are a number of mistakes in the anatomy of the ship book so compare as much research material as possible. best material is primary sauce material ie paintings from the time. Victory only began its restoration to 'Trafalgar fit' in 1922 and much of it is still incorrect! “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
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 Rank: Pro  Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/06/2010 Posts: 242 Points: 720
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jase wrote:beware the anchors on the victory are replicas not the real thing. however there are a number of mistakes in the anatomy of the ship book so compare as much research material as possible. best material is primary sauce material ie paintings from the time. Victory only began its restoration to 'Trafalgar fit' in 1922 and much of it is still incorrect! Excellent point. I've been having a look at some contemporary paintings and comparing them to photos I took on a trip to Victory recently. Firstly, I noticed a great change in the stern:   Note the differences between Pococks painting and the photo of the stern decorations Tom
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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thomasmoult wrote:jase wrote:beware the anchors on the victory are replicas not the real thing. however there are a number of mistakes in the anatomy of the ship book so compare as much research material as possible. best material is primary sauce material ie paintings from the time. Victory only began its restoration to 'Trafalgar fit' in 1922 and much of it is still incorrect! Excellent point. I've been having a look at some contemporary paintings and comparing them to photos I took on a trip to Victory recently. Firstly, I noticed a great change in the stern: Note the differences between Pococks painting and the photo of the stern decorations Tom And the painting has no entry ports. 
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Certainly there was no Prince of Wales 'plume of feathers' on the taff rail at the time of Trafalgar.
Current research suggests that in place of the plume was either King George III's coat of arms or a medalion featuring his bust, the latter is believed to be the most likely, and its also known that the centrepiece was replaced by a medallion with a bust of Nelson shortly after the battle of Trafalgar.
The plume was salvaged from HMS Prince in 1837 (which was also at Trafalgar) and was added to Victory's stern around this time, though the canon and flags either side of the plume are correct for Victory at Trafalgar.
Info provided by Peter Goodwin - Keeper and Curator of HMS Victory
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yes and the early victory had a different figurehead also. remember victory was commissioned in 1778 some 27 years before Trafalgar. In those 27 years she had a number of refits including a major refit one month before Trafalgar. during these refits her overstated mouldings and gilt looking finery was removed and a new figurehead put on. Victory has had many changes for example the current masts are steel replacements dating to the Victorian era and as such have some differences to the trafalgar fit. My point is don't just use one source as the basis of your detail if you are after historical accuracy rather than an impression cross reference your source materials, and paintings are often a good primary source material as close to a period photo as you can get. “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 13/10/2011 Posts: 851 Points: 2,628 Location: Leeds, Yorkshire
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jase wrote:beware the anchors on the victory are replicas not the real thing. however there are a number of mistakes in the anatomy of the ship book so compare as much research material as possible. best material is primary sauce material ie paintings from the time. Victory only began its restoration to 'Trafalgar fit' in 1922 and much of it is still incorrect! I agree with Jase as far as comparing as much research material as possible. However, paintings from the time can be notoriously inaccurate. The Pocock painting is a case in point. It was completed in 1807 shortly after Trafalgar. The illustration in the previous post is actually a detail from the complete painting which is entitled 'Nelson's Flagships and is an imagined scene featuring five of the ships associated with Nelson.  The reason why the stern differs from Victory as she is today is that, for whatever reason, Pocock chose to paint Victory with her original open galleries from the build in 1765. The galleries were modified to their current design during the great re-fit of 1803. I don't want to re-open old arguments but artists do not always add all the detail. In the original painting the Entry Ports on one ship out of five would be such a small feature which you could understand the artist leaving out. Mike T
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Rank: Vice-Master    Groups: Registered
Joined: 23/03/2010 Posts: 507 Points: 1,571
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Well done Jase, if source material is all we can go on, and it is, then the victory today looks nothing like it did at Trafalgar, and I will agree with mike in that paintings are inaccurate, but what else have we got to go on.
Pococks detailed painting dated 2007 shows victory with open stern galleries, which brings into doubt when they were removed, it is presumed they were removed in the 2003 refit but mike T has already confirmed that all the drawings from that refit have been lost and I cant find one single painting of victory with the stern she has today, its a bit like this build a mystery, so does anyone know when the stern of victory today was fitted.
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Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/06/2010 Posts: 242 Points: 720
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Willz - I'll have a look into it if I get a chance as I'am very interested in how the 'original' Victory looked, if there is such a thing?! Mike is definitely right about paintings often being inaccurate, most often to present the scene depicted in the most glamorous, heroic and victorious setting possible. There was one I saw recently, I'll see if I can find it (think it was one of Turners), of the Battle of Trafalgar, that not only had a a host of nautical errors, but if I remember, some of the ships were painted as being in the wrong place compared to what really happened, causing some controversy at the time. But like already said, contemporary paintings are a good source to go on. Tom
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Rank: Pro  Groups: Registered
Joined: 20/03/2010 Posts: 498 Points: 1,522 Location: South Wales
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OMG Not this old argument again  No matter what you read or who you speak to associated with HMS Victory, everyone will have a different opinion as to how she looked during the battle of Trafalgar, and they all claim to be the experts on the subject, yet most of the pictures, paintings etc tell a different story, so in reality, none of us will ever be able to create a 100% accurate model of the HMS Victory at the battle of Trafalgar, unless you were on board at the time! Personally, I'm just going to build her as she is now, I think she is a beautiful ship and one I will be proud to have grace my home, and if anyone wants to point out that this or that is wrong, then let them. Best wishes David Ship Builds on the go
Yamato - DeAgostini Subscription - Highly Recommend This Model
AKAGI - DeAgostini Subscription - Highly Recommend This Model
RMS Titanic Lifeboat (Kind Gift from DeAgostini Crew)
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Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/03/2010 Posts: 143 Points: 434 Location: cheshire
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Lonestar Spirit wrote: OMG Not this old argument again No matter what you read or who you speak to associated with HMS Victory, everyone will have a different opinion as to how she looked during the battle of Trafalgar, and they all claim to be the experts on the subject, yet most of the pictures, paintings etc tell a different story, so in reality, none of us will ever be able to create a 100% accurate model of the HMS Victory at the battle of Trafalgar, unless you were on board at the time! Personally, I'm just going to build her as she is now, I think she is a beautiful ship and one I will be proud to have grace my home, and if anyone wants to point out that this or that is wrong, then let them. Best wishes David i agree david lol this is 1 thread i wont be revisiting again i thought this topic was put to bed months ago
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Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/06/2010 Posts: 242 Points: 720
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I wasn't intending to start a conflict, I was merely discussing how much Victory has changed over the years  I do apologise if this has already been discussed, I just thought it would have been nice to compare different images and references of the ship. Nevermind 
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 23/03/2010 Posts: 507 Points: 1,571
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Not an argument lonestar, more of a puzzle. Ive been trying to find paintings of her stern for a while now with no luck, the drawings in Longridges book show her in her Portsmouth state with the Prince of Wales feathers and all and we know thats wrong, and as you say lonestar no one will ever know the true Trafalgar Victory. Before I end this post I would like to point out that I will be building Victory in here Portsmouth state, all the discrepancies I find are purely out of interest. To close heres a painting by Louis-Philippe Crépin painted in 1807 willz attached the following image(s):
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Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/06/2010 Posts: 242 Points: 720
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Willz - The 'Great refit' of 1800 may have been when the current stern was fitted as I just read that during this refit, the whole of the stern was closed in and modernised. That being that prior to this, there were open galleries at the stern which had now been closed up.
Also, if you happen to have the 'souvenir guide' for Portsmouth Harbour, on page 23 there is a 19th century photo of Victory, and from looking at another online, the stern and the general rest of the ship looks much as it does now.
Hope that helps,
Tom
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 13/10/2011 Posts: 851 Points: 2,628 Location: Leeds, Yorkshire
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Tom you are right but it was actually the great refit of 1803. It was to bring Victory in line with other first rates designed since Victory was launched. Closing the galleries created more cabin space for the Captain and Admiral and also provided more protection from heavy following seas. Although no plans apparently exist for the 1803 refit, there are other records which have been used to determine what was done at that time.
Mike T
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Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/06/2010 Posts: 242 Points: 720
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Thanks for the correction Mike, don't want to be giving the wrong dates!  I unearthed my copy of MEN SHIPS AND THE SEA yesterday so might have a flick through that for some more information. Tom
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 23/03/2010 Posts: 507 Points: 1,571
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My real interest is in when was the stern she has today fitted, I cant find any detail at all on this, and believe me I've tried, we all now know that the prince of Wales feathers were not present at the time of Trafalgar so the question is what else is just pie in the sky. So if anyone knows anything about victory's present stern and when it was fitted it would be helpful
All the drawings I can find of Victory`s stern show her with the prince of Wales feathers.
So on that it seems that drawings have the same artistic licence as paintings the difference being that the paintings always out number the drawings. When you see paintings by different artist showing the same detail of victory who were alive at the time then to me I cant see any contest (simply because there isn`t one) but again if anyone can come up with anything (other than hearsay) it would be humbly accepted
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