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 Rank: Semi-Pro Level 2   Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/04/2015 Posts: 75 Points: 234 Location: St. Louis USA
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Hello group! I would like some help in understanding the value of each of the ship kits. I have been dreaming of the HMS Victory build, and while is has been out of the US market, it has given me some time to do some research. Which has raise some questions, I was hoping you guys can help me understand. Please correct me if am wrong. From what I have found the the HMS Victory kit is made by Artesania Latina and is available as a single kit on AL website. It seams the same kit is available from De Agostini and Model Space as a subscription/single kit. There is a huge price difference. Why? What is the difference from the kit on AL website vs the kit on DA/MS website? Is it the Magazine/instructions that DA/MS has produced for the their Victory kit? Do both kits have the same instructions (meaning do Artesania Latina’s instructions are included with the DA/MS kit)? I have downloaded the DA/MS sample magazine/instructions for the Victory. Looks great and I like the "learn as you go” approach and the history each magazine will teach you. Is the DA/MS Victory Kit the only one that comes with them magazine/instructions produced by DA/MA? Or do the other kits they offer has the same format of the produced magazine? Seams to me all the other kits are the Artesania Latina instructions only. Some day I would like to do the Cutty Sark subscription but is looks like it is only Artesania Latina instructions. Not the produced magazine instructions from DA/MS. My last question is do any of the ships come with plans? Thank you all for taking the time to teach and enlighten a noob. All my best, Jordan. In the workshop: HMS VictoryFinished builds: Providence Whaleboat
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Hi Gauncer, Firstly there is a difference between the a/l version and the Deag/Model space version in terms of the kit. The A/L version has a booklet. The Modelspace version comes with a booklet with history and step by step instructions. The major difference is the price. A/L version cheaper because its in one box. The Modelspace version is more expensive due to being packaged into monthly issues there's a cost in that. And there is the extra info in the booklets too. The cost of all this is reflected in the price overall. Most people don't like to pay £400 out in one go. Spreading the cost over months is so much better on the pocket. I have built 3 this way. Chris. On the bench 1/350 Revell Tirpitz Platinum Edition (Pontos PE and Wooden deck) plus extra Eduard PE set and extra MK1 door sets.
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 Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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The Artesania kit and the DeAgostini kit do not have the same content and spec, though both are from the same design house.
The DeAgostini design incorporates a gun deck Cutaway section, has a selection of diecast figurines, it also has a four ships boats which are boat kits in themselves (the Artesania kit only has one).
The DeAgostini instructions are in a simplified format which allows the novice builder to consider and achieve such a comprehensive build which in its normal Artesania guise can be daunting to say the least.
If you take a look at the Artesania instructions booklet, you'll quickly realise that they are minimal and have an assumption that you have an idea of what you are doing and are aware of basic model ship construction techniques.
The format of the DeAgostini kit means that you do not need huge plan sheets, everything is contained within the instructions along with a handful of small plan sheets provided at the relevant points which indicate such as mast/spar length and fittings etc.
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Rank: Semi-Pro Level 2 Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/04/2015 Posts: 75 Points: 234 Location: St. Louis USA
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Tomick wrote:
The DeAgostini instructions are in a simplified format which allows the novice builder to consider and achieve such a comprehensive build which in its normal Artesania guise can be daunting to say the least.
If you take a look at the Artesania instructions booklet, you'll quickly realise that they are minimal and have an assumption that you have an idea of what you are doing and are aware of basic model ship construction techniques.
The format of the DeAgostini kit means that you do not need huge plan sheets, everything is contained within the instructions along with a handful of small plan sheets provided at the relevant points which indicate such as mast/spar length and fittings etc.
Thanks Chris and Mr.T. Tomick, does the above quote pertain to the all the DeAgostini ship models? Or just the Victory? I would like to do the Cutty Sark one day. Oh and also, can one just buy the magazines? JG In the workshop: HMS VictoryFinished builds: Providence Whaleboat
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Part works are a perfect way for people to spread the cost of what would be a very expensive kit over several months and thus not getting that hit to the bank account that SWIMBO would spot like a sparrow hawk just about to sink its tallon's into the prey. Another thing is the instructions are designed to be clear and precise to all from beginers to the more experienced modeler and trust me I have had to cope with some very poor instructions in the past that have been translated from the Italian,French or German into some pidgin form of English that assumes you have built several models before. For example I know of one well known ship kit producer [who shall remain nameless] who provides just a side view of a period ship like the Victory showing the rigging and expect you to work out from that drawing where it all goes. The content of part works and kits differs too both will still give you a nice model at the end and something to be proud of. One other thing to mention is this forum and its members that are willing to give advice and help to all who ask and all for free. With a kit you get the parts, instructions and your hopes of building your dream ship and little else, looking at both I know where I would rather be. Current builds:-C57,Zero, Lamborghini Countach, Caldercraft HMS Agamemnon,Robi,R2-D2, MFH Cobra .
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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The instructions/magazines are not available without purchase of the kit.
The type of instructions supplied with all of our kits varies from country to country. Cutty Sark is not in the same format as Victory.
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Rank: Semi-Pro Level 2 Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/04/2015 Posts: 75 Points: 234 Location: St. Louis USA
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Right on. Thank you all this has been super helpful. Victory is on the wishlist, I have a few boats on the docket to work. I am going to do the subscription. Really love the idea working it over time. Talk to you all soon. JG In the workshop: HMS VictoryFinished builds: Providence Whaleboat
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I have the DeAg kits for both the Victory and the Cutty. Essentially what you get with ghe cutty is the origonal kit instructions broken down with the parts deliverd. As has been said the Vic instructions are step by step for the benefit of the compleat beginner. I would certainly do the Victory first to learn the ropes, excuse the pun, befor atempto.ing the cutty which is a very comprehensive and detailed model and would be very challanging for a first build. Jase “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
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Rank: Semi-Pro Level 2 Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/04/2015 Posts: 75 Points: 234 Location: St. Louis USA
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Are there any other builds that are good for beginners success? How is HMS Sovereign of the Seas build? Any know if HMS Sovereign of the Seas will be available in the US? JG In the workshop: HMS VictoryFinished builds: Providence Whaleboat
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 Rank: Super-Elite      Groups: Registered
Joined: 27/01/2014 Posts: 5,060 Points: 14,980
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Although I haven't started building her yet, its also my first wooden ship, I am collecting Santísima Trinidad. The instructions are really clear and also being a beginner I am sure I will not have any difficulties following them. This build also comes with a cross section so you are effectively getting two models 
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Gauncer wrote:Are there any other builds that are good for beginners success?
How is HMS Sovereign of the Seas build?
Any know if HMS Sovereign of the Seas will be available in the US?
JG Sovrign of the seas has good instructuons but technicly is a more difficult build than Victory Jase “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Gauncer wrote:Are there any other builds that are good for beginners success?
How is HMS Sovereign of the Seas build?
Any know if HMS Sovereign of the Seas will be available in the US?
JG In partwork terms, the Victory by far has the most comprehensive instructions for the novice.
The SotS provides similar:
http://forum.model-space...aspx?g=posts&t=5499
http://forum.model-space...aspx?g=posts&t=5583
http://forum.model-space...aspx?g=posts&t=5548
http://forum.model-space...aspx?g=posts&t=4796
The SotS is not planned for the USA at the moment.
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Hi Jordan, for anyone starting out in the world of wooden ship building my recommendation would certainly be with partworks rather than complete kits. Having reached the later stages of my SOTS build and having seen the instructions for the Vic (having this one in my stash), I can say both are excellent and have been put together with the beginner in mind. The Vic however I would say has to have the best instructions out there for any ship partwork, certainly a build the beginner could have and some have had, a great success with. Having seen both, I'd say go with the Vic first, possibly the SOTS but keep clear of the Cutty in complete kit form until you have at least one build under your belt. As for costs, yes partworks are a little more expensive but you have much more of a chance of having a successful build with a partwork against a complete kit therefore much less of a chance of wasting a large chunk of money and of course, with a partwork, if you find it is not for you then you always have the option of cancelling the subscription at any point although I would hope that wouldn't happen.
Regards
Alan
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