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 Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Hi Alan, Slow progress but getting there! I have hit a potential snag. I have installed the port linings 5mm above the decking and note that the top of the gun port linings are level with the tip of ribs 13, 15 & 16 on both sides of the hull. In Mag 36, picture 6, there is about 2 mm of strake above the lining. Please advise what my options are? Peter G attached the following image(s):
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Hi Peter the gun ports look a little high I have just looked at the top of the ports on my SOTS and there is aprox 4/5mm to the top of the strake's , Hope this helps rgd Martyn Martyn Ingram attached the following image(s): Building ?
Completed. Soliei Royal . Sovereign of the Seas . Virginia . Scotland . San Felipe . Corel vasa , Santisima Trinadad X section , Vasa
Next Build ?
When sailors have good wine, They think themselves in heaven for the time. John Baltharpe
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 Rank: Semi-Pro Level 2  Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/04/2014 Posts: 99 Points: 303 Location: Perth, Western Australia
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G’day Peter, I have just finished this portion of the build so I may be able to offer some assistance if I can. It looks like your middle row of gun ports are about 5mm too high which has a knock-on effect of raising the height of the top row of gun ports by 5mm. I am unable to see where your fwd to aft reference lines are that are used as the baselines for measuring the height of the gun ports, so I am judging by your photos. It looks as though you have a 15mm gap between the top of the lower row of gun ports and the base of the middle row. This is based on you having three planks between these rows (assuming that they are 5mm wide bamboo planks as supplied). On my build I have two rows of planks separating the lower and middle rows of gun ports (approximately 10mm). I have provided a picture of my build showing similar area. Recommend that you check and double check you measurements starting with the reference lines then the height of the gun ports with respect to the reference lines. Hope this helps. Regards, Adam AdamHall attached the following image(s):
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Hi Peter, looking to see what we can do here and to do that I need some more info from you... First of all thanks for the pics but I'm afraid they do not show enough info. Can you provide some more pics, a full side on photo that shows the whole side of the hull, down onto the deck level against the ribs, along the side of the hull from bow to stern and stern to bow. Need to see things overall and to pick up some reference points I can use as guidance. Second, your gun port linings do look a little on the large side. Lining ports in this way gives very little room for manoeuvre, the dimensions of your ports as well as the lining box you create really has to be spot on... Double check the size your you lining boxes, they should be no more than 13mm wide and 12mm high, any higher and this will just exacerbate your problem.. Try to check the deck level against the bottom of your ports. You need to have something small enough to get inside the port to see if the bottom of your ports are really at the correct height in comparison to the decks, centre of the bottom of the port should be 5mm. This is just to verify everything is in the correct place... Bear in mind also, you will be planking above the tops of the ribs as the attached pic shows but we will be trimming these back later so we may find everything is ok but we need to be sure.... You may think the easy answer is to lower the height of the top row of ports. This may be possible but beware, doing this may mean your gun barrels will look high when set in the ports. Secondly, we have to take care you have the room and correct dimensions for adding all of the ornamentation along the side of the hull, some of these dimensions are tight with little room error. Lastly, I would advise you follow the written instructions that have been provided. Deviation from the instructions by adapting other build methods can and often do turn out to create bigger problems further into the build. The instructions have been written with the complete novice in mind, following them will always give the best possible chance of producing a great build.... It would also be really beneficial for you if you maintain a build diary allowing us to possibly see and prevent any problems that are being created as you go along ... Hope this helps and look forward to your next update.. Regards Alan Gandale attached the following image(s):
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Hi All, Seems I have mis-interpreted the dimensions despite adhering to the "measure twice and cut once mantra". Answers to all advisers comments follow! The gun port linings are 12mm x 12mm made from strips 12mm and 9mm wide, 1.5mm thick cut on my Triton work bench. Because I opted for installing the port linings before installing the strakes (prefered to cutting holes after fixing the strakes which I had a real problem with on the first row) I used the deck levels for determining the location of the ports. The second row of gun ports are 5mm above the second deck as confirmed by earlier correspondence. Somehow I interpreted the dimensions in the instructions to correspond to 5mm above the third deck. In the photo you can see how I did this by putting a 5mm filler under the lining. But now back checking measurements the linings should be sitting on the top of the 3rd deck or possibly 1 to 2 mm above. I will check more accurately later. Some photos show the lines I have marked on the hull. So really to confirm my latest measurements can you give me a distance from the top of the third deck to the bottom of the linings? I will have quite a bit of "undoing" to do to remove the fillers and the row of strakes immediately below the linings which will take me back to deck level. C'est la vie! I have used an interior PVA glue. Not sure if wetting this will soften it but I will look for the article on glues which came many weeks ago. Sorry to have caused so much trouble & really appreciate all your inputs.Peter
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Hi again, Realising my mistake, I have removed the 3rd row of port linings, the filler piece underneath and the one row of strakes above the third decking. So, now I have a clean deck and the top of the uppermost strake is flush with the top surface of the deck. It turned out the PVA glue was softened with water (which soaked thru the wood) and I only lost 3 linings so with spares I have enough to finish the job. The removal took just one hour with minimum pain! Some of the filler pieces needed to be sanded after the lining was first prised loose to remove residual glue so the water could saturate the filler. Two pics show a lining adjacent to one of the ribs. The measurement from the top of the lining to the tip of the short ribs is 4.0mm to 4.5mm. I believe this is about right and do not need a thin filler piece underneath. I had some fun and games with attaching the pics in the earlier message. Hope I have it right this time round. Regards, Peter G
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Hi Peter, thanks for the providing the pics they will be a great help. I will come back to you later but I need a little time to digest what you have posted to date. Word of caution, the port linings on the upper deck do not sit on the deck line but above it. Remember you have you also add the thickness of the deck planking and waterways, plus a little planking on the bullwarks is done under the ports. Have a close look at the official build pics (link below), it shows very well what you are trying to achieve. http://forum.model-space...aspx?g=posts&t=7313
I can only go by the measurements you are quoting and the centre deck line you have drawn is a help, this is the line from which all other measurements start. The measurments to the next deck up should be exactly as quoted in the mag instructions so what you have shown in you pics would be correct, if not then the centre line may be slightly out, I recon around 2mm too high. Can you also pencil in the lower deck line from your centre deck line, using the measurements quoted in the mag. Once done post a pic for me of the whole side of the hull... Hope this helps. Regards Alan
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Hi Alan, The lower row of gun port linings are sitting on the lower deck. The 23mm line has been drawn and is visible in the photos. Also, the lower line and the deck can be seen in the middle photo of the hatch. In cutting the holes for the linings, the lower edge was on the level with the deck surface except the for and aft sloping sections this had to be marginally altered due to the angle of the deck. I put the leading edge or trailing edge on the deck level with a small spacer under the opposite edge to get the port linings horizontal. An easy way forward might be to confirm a dimension from the tip of the short ribs to the top of the linings?? I say this as there are no strakes to draw lines on! Regards, Peter
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 Hi Peter I think the way to go is to plank as per instructions in the mag up to the top ribs as this will give you a place to measure the distance to the top of the gun ports . Hope this helps rgd Martyn Building ?
Completed. Soliei Royal . Sovereign of the Seas . Virginia . Scotland . San Felipe . Corel vasa , Santisima Trinadad X section , Vasa
Next Build ?
When sailors have good wine, They think themselves in heaven for the time. John Baltharpe
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Thanx Martyn but trying to avoid cutting holes in the planking from past experirnce and hoping someone can confirm the dimension from the tip of the short ribs to the top of the linings.
Peter G
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 Rank: Super-Elite       Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/01/2013 Posts: 4,604 Points: 13,607 Location: Monmouthshire UK
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H Peter, I'm not building this one myself but Id also go along with Martyn and Alan and advise you to stick to the build instructions from this point on. I think you may have made a fair bit of extra work for yourself by taking a different route on the gunports. The build guide instructions are setup for a novice to follow so there is little reason to deviate from them, except to add some of your own touches. Cutting out the gunports is not a daunting task and there are some tips in many of the diaries to make this even easier Steve
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 Rank: Vice-Master  Groups: Registered
Joined: 09/12/2013 Posts: 577 Points: 1,748 Location: smethwick england
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Hi peter,if the short ribs are the same height as the hull planking (can't quite remember if they were) then I had 4mm between top of the ribs and top of the linings.The more critical measurement may be the gap between linings and deck.I ended up with 2mm from bottom of linings to to the bare deck,which gave just enough room to fit decking and waterway.hope this helps. nightwisher attached the following image(s): Man he took his time in the sun Had a dream to understand A single grain of sand He gave birth to poetry But one day will cease to be Greet the last light of the library...We were here!
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Hi Peter, thanks for your efforts in providing the pics I asked for, they are a great help in giving me a good insight into your build. First thing I will say is your bottom row of gun ports are too low. The gun port linings do not sit on the lower deck, they actually sit 5mm above the deck. A good look at the pic Adam provided shows this very well. Problem you have here in leaving the ports where they are will come later when you come to fit the wales. Look at Nighwishers pic and you will see this for yourself. The gun ports will cut deep into the wales, perhaps even all the way through them. Correcting this would normally be an easy fix but in your case, because of the way you have lined the ports this may be a little more tricky for you. The fix would be to remove the linings, add a piece of planking to the bottom of each port, cut a piece out of the top of the port thereby raising them. Once that is done then line the ports as per the instructions given. The alterations will not be seen as they would be hidden by the second planking layer.
Your centre row of ports look fine so don't see any need to change things here. In dealing with the top row of ports, you could plank the rest of the hull all the way up, again as per the instructions. Plank up above the tops of the smallest ribs by some 3-4mm, can trim this back later. Once planked, mark out the ports giving at least 2-3mm from the bottom of the port to the deck as outlined by Nightwisher. Any lower than this and you will find your gun barrels will be too high, perhaps even touching the tops of the ports and this just wouldn't look right. You also have to consider the ornamentation to be fitted alongside the hull. Cutting out the gun ports is not difficult on bamboo. Drill a series of 1mm holes all the way round the port, drill inside the marked port outline. Then using a fresh blade you will find the port easy to cut out. Trim the port near the outline and finish off using a fine file. Using this method you will find cutting the ports out very easy.
The other option would be to remove all the planking from the lower deck up and redo as per the instructions given. Of course, I cannot tell you what to do with your build, I can only give what I see as possible options for you, others on the forum may have other ideas, so take your time to consider how you wish to proceed and do get back to me should you have any other queries.
Whatever course of action you decide I wish you luck with it and if I can think of anything else then I'll let you know.
Regards
Alan
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Thanx guys, all comments and photos really appreciated. Man-O-man - don't know how I got the position of the first row wrong, I will have to check this out. Alan's proposal for fixing it is very doable. I bow to peer pressure and will complete planking as described. The comment about the method of drilling holes and bamboo being softer to cut is really useful info & has given me hope!!!
Onwards and upwards, Regards, Peter G
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Hi Peter, happy to hear you think we have got you back on the right track.. Don't get too down about making mistakes, it is something I would say every one of us on this forum have done, some minor and some requiring some major surgery.. Main thing is it's the mistakes that help us learn and improve on our skills, from this you will gain in experience which will help you avoid the errors is future.... Look forward to seeing how you progress from here on... Good luck...
Regards
Alan
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Rank: Pro  Groups: Registered
Joined: 25/04/2014 Posts: 370 Points: 1,122 Location: Mandurah W.Australia
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Hi Peter I've been looking at your little problem re the gun ports and would offer my two pennies worth... For cutting of the holes in the bamboo strakes have a look at my thread, page 8, post#145. (sorry, I don't know how to put a link in). I found things a lot easier drilling the little holes and then "joining the dots" - so to speak...  Hope this helps Best regards JohnP
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Hi again, I have almost completed the upper hull planking but need some advice on planking at the stern end to finish it off. The photos show the 18th, 50mm, strake is about 1/2 a strake too low. The photos show how this has come about. Counting the strakes in the various magazine views show there should be 18 from the base to the top of the stern "canopy". Counting strakes inside the hull from the third deck to the top of the "canopy" gives 12 with half a strake still to go. At what level do I need to make the 1/2 strake adjustment? Presumably, the decision will be based on the relative deck levels. Regards, Peter G Peter G attached the following image(s):
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Hi Peter looking good M8 . Do not worry to much about the lack of planks going to the top of the stern just add one more plank to the top as these will be cut down later in the build ie issue 34 /35 . If you look at Mr Ts build diary it will show you how it looks issue 34/35  Hope this helps rgd Martyn Building ?
Completed. Soliei Royal . Sovereign of the Seas . Virginia . Scotland . San Felipe . Corel vasa , Santisima Trinadad X section , Vasa
Next Build ?
When sailors have good wine, They think themselves in heaven for the time. John Baltharpe
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Yes, I see what lies ahead. Thanx, Peter G
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Looks great, keep the pics comming Jase “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
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