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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Hi helpers, In Step 7, Issue 35, the four line points do not align. I can get the marks at ribs 16, 20 & 21 in line but the mark at 22 is then 4mm high. Alternately I can just about align 22, 21 & 20 but then the mark at rib 16 is high.The line in the illustration is straight thru ribs 16 to 22, so it looks like I should ignore the 65mm dimension at rib 22?? I have triple checked this and get the same result each time, on both sides of the hull! Regards, Peter G
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Hi Peter can you post some pics to show the problem so we can have a look Rgd Martyn Building ? Completed. Soliei Royal . Sovereign of the Seas . Virginia . Scotland . San Felipe . Corel vasa , Santisima Trinadad X section , Vasa Next Build ? When sailors have good wine, They think themselves in heaven for the time. John Baltharpe
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yes pic please so we can get a clear understanding J “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.” -Mark Twain
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Peter G wrote:Hi helpers, In Step 7, Issue 35, the four line points do not align. I can get the marks at ribs 16, 20 & 21 in line but the mark at 22 is then 4mm high. Alternately I can just about align 22, 21 & 20 but then the mark at rib 16 is high.The line in the illustration is straight thru ribs 16 to 22, so it looks like I should ignore the 65mm dimension at rib 22?? I have triple checked this and get the same result each time, on both sides of the hull! Regards, Peter G Hi Peter, Now I need you to clearly mark the correct measurements on ribs 16, 20, 21 and 22, all from the centre deck line. You say the marks on ribs 16, 20 and 21 are in line but 22 is 4mm too high. Draw a line joining ribs 16, 20 and 21, continue the line straight though past rib 22 and on towards the gallery side. The line needs to go through the marks you make on 16, 20 and 21. Take 2 pics, one showing the line you have drawn and one at a distance showing the whole side of the hull. Regards Alan
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Hi Folks,
I thought my description was enough but will send photos in future. A pic is worth a thousand words!
In the first pic, the lines are a bit rough due to pen and much of the time the line is in the join between two strakes so I have used a thicker nib to highlight. The lower reference line is marked with crosses in a circle, the upper marks just a cross. I have overlapped lines and marked the 4mm difference.
I have included a pic of the middle section which shows 3 marks in line but the line turns up to the last mark from rib 13 to 7. The bow section marks are all in line.
Hope this is all clear now, regards, Peter G
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Hi Folks, I thought my description was enough but will send photos in future. A pic is worth a thousand words! In the first pic, the lines are a bit rough due to pen and much of the time the line is in the join between two strakes so I have used a thicker nib to highlight. The lower reference line is marked with crosses in a circle, the upper marks just a cross. I have overlapped lines and marked the 4mm difference. I have included a pic of the middle section which shows 3 marks in line but the line turns up to the last mark from rib 13 to 7. The bow section marks are all in line. Hope this is all clear now, regards, Peter G Peter G attached the following image(s):
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Hi, Just reviewed the message just sent and possible the first and vital pic did not transmit, so will send it again. Peter G Peter G attached the following image(s):
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 09/12/2013 Posts: 577 Points: 1,748 Location: smethwick england
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Hello Peter G. Think I might have spotted the problem, the original datum line should be a gentle curve but where it runs through rib 21 there seems to be a sharp dip,maybe as much as 2mm,if this is added to the 62mm I don't think the cutting line would be far off.The same thing at rib 13 to a lesser extent. Hope this helps. Man he took his time in the sun Had a dream to understand A single grain of sand He gave birth to poetry But one day will cease to be Greet the last light of the library...We were here!
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 09/12/2013 Posts: 577 Points: 1,748 Location: smethwick england
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P.S I would wait and see what the more experienced guys think before doing anything. Man he took his time in the sun Had a dream to understand A single grain of sand He gave birth to poetry But one day will cease to be Greet the last light of the library...We were here!
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Hi Peter just had a look at the pics . the deck line should be a gentle curve from bow to stern . if you can mark out the other side of the ship and see if you have the same result it might be that a plank is out a little bit . look forward to hearing from you Building ? Completed. Soliei Royal . Sovereign of the Seas . Virginia . Scotland . San Felipe . Corel vasa , Santisima Trinadad X section , Vasa Next Build ? When sailors have good wine, They think themselves in heaven for the time. John Baltharpe
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Thanx to you all. I have one comment to add & that is my reference line follows the top of the second deck & the fore, center and aft deck sections were flat when laid on the knees of the ribs. So, how did you get a gentle curve??!! I thought I followed all the instruction re installing the strakes and tapering them as & when instructed to.
Will also wait to hear from Alan. Cheers, Peter G
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Hi Peter, thanks for the pics, have had a chance to have a good look at your build and read through all of your previous posts relating to your build. In answer to the question - 'How do you get the gentle curve', this is achieved by ensuring the decks are glued firmly to the deck supports. The first run of planks being fitted follows the curve exactly. Here is the links to my diary that shows this very well: http://forum.model-space...sts&t=5013&p=15
Last pic in post 295 clearly shows the slope of the deck. http://forum.model-space...sts&t=5013&p=20
Post 389 clearly shows the curvature of the first planks laid. http://forum.model-space...sts&t=5013&p=43
Post 852 shows the curvature very well after the ports have been cut. When I look at your planking I don't see any curve, I see quite sharp upturns of the planks from frame 13 to the bow and frame 21 to the stern, your pics on post 6 show this very well. I'm also not entirely sure if you have staggered the plank joints as per the instructions or whether most of your joints are at the same points, ie frames 13 and 21. This is where I think your problems have originated from as this is where you create your first reference line from which all other measurements arise from. In relation to your present problem, you have 3 points all lining up at frames 16, 20 and 21. The line you drew through them gives you the height you will have to work with and at this stage I wouldn't go trimming down the planks to their final heights. Choices you have, take everything back to the start of the planking phase and redo, not a good choice I know but it is a choice you should consider. Continue as you are by drawing in the upper gun ports which will give us a better idea as to whether everything is likely to fit or whether other problems are likely to surface as the build progresses.. I will say though, giving you assistance on these problems would have been exceptionally difficult without the pics you have been providing so thanks for taking the effort to provide. A picture really does say a vast amount. Look forward to hearing from you again... Regards Alan
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Hi Alan,
Thanx again for your detailed autopsy! I am pretty sure I got the three deck sections glued down on their supports so thought I would check this by just taking off one or two rows of strakes at the reference line level. This will enable me to get the lineup corrected as you describe and then I can redraw a new reference line. Re-drawing the line rather than re-planking the upper side of the hull should do the trick. Will do that now and send a report later today taking advantage of the 7 hour time difference! Thanx, Peter G
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Hi Alan, The pics show the exposed deck with the row of gun port linings sitting on a 5mm spacer. I covered the previous markings with a semi transparent tape and can see where the small (but significant) differences are. Because of this, when I sanded the top of the original strake level with the decking I obviously got some small kinks in the reference line which I did not appreciate. I used a vernier gauge to mark the cutting level points, sitting one end of the gauge on the top of the decking, next to the ribs. I have noticed that the decking levels are not quite true along the hull even though they are all sitting on the rib "knees". So I propose to replace the lower strake first and get as smooth a curved line as I can get, aligning the top of the strake with an average deck level and then remeasure the cut points. The top of this strake will be my new reference line. I am using a straight line measurement, ie not making the steel ruler follow the curve of the hull which gives a slightly different measurement. So, the cut line from rib 2 to 7 is very slightly curved, from 7 to 16 and 16 to 22 are curved and 22 to 26 is straight. The 4mm divergence has gone with the curving of the line! Will hold off from replacing the strakes until I hear from you. Regards, Peter G Peter G attached the following image(s):
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Hi Peter, well done, great work. Think now we are getting somewhere where things hopefully will start to go a little smoother from here. Now that you have the centre deck exposed you have a true reference line to work from and not one based on estimates. I wouldn't fill in those strakes until after everything else has been corrected and finally marked out with all the ports cut, once happy then replace the strakes along the centre line. Now you should mark in your lower line and raise the gun ports to the correct level, this is not a difficult task and is well worth doing now. Draw in your upper ports and lets look at things after that. Don't do anything in regards to trimming down the tops of the bullwarks, this again can be done at the end.
Hope this helps and look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
Alan
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Well done Peter glad you are back on track A small error can have a big knock on effect but this forum can sort any problem out Happy building rgd Martyn Building ? Completed. Soliei Royal . Sovereign of the Seas . Virginia . Scotland . San Felipe . Corel vasa , Santisima Trinadad X section , Vasa Next Build ? When sailors have good wine, They think themselves in heaven for the time. John Baltharpe
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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A good point about leaving the deck exposed. Will proceed as suggested. Also thanx for words of encouragement from Martyn & Co!! Peter G
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