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 Rank: Vice-Master   Groups: Registered
Joined: 25/04/2010 Posts: 748 Points: 2,285 Location: bognor regis
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hi all..i have had this in my mind for a while now..why are some builders trying to create recesses in the gun ports..i too have thought about the best way for myself to create these recesses but looking at jases superb photos(now i could be wrong) the recesses are only there as glazing bars for the glass to stop the rain going inside the boat because its now a tourist attraction...i dont think we are trying to create a tourist attraction build but one the replicates a build of the time it was in 1805 or a build of how the vic is now but without the tourist attraction add ons so i am confident that the gunports were just framed without a recess...now of course this is my opinion and the way i see it ..if i am wrong your opinions will be much appreciated..paul (please read post 4 to get an idea what i mean) cheers benny
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 25/04/2010 Posts: 748 Points: 2,285 Location: bognor regis
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the picture i looked at was jases entry port file on his downloads he has sent us all cheers benny
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 Rank: Pro  Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/06/2010 Posts: 242 Points: 720
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Hi Benny,
I maybe wrong, but my belief was that the recess was the means by which the lid of the gunport would be brought down and seated in the hull, thus creating a seal to prevent water coming in. I suppose in a similar way to a door frame?
Tom
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 25/04/2010 Posts: 748 Points: 2,285 Location: bognor regis
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this is why i was doubtful on what i said..in the pics i was looking at ,they look like thin glass beads...so the original recesses av been removed for the glass to be fitted?? because i thought the recess was on the lids themselves (a bit like a plug with an edge that fits over the outer skin of the hull) cheers paul..if anyone has a diagram on how they fit that would be great cheers benny
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Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/06/2010 Posts: 242 Points: 720
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benny wrote:this is why i was doubtful on what i said..in the pics i was looking at they look like thin glass beads...so the original recesses av been removed for the glass to be fitted?? because i thought the recess was on the lids themselves (a bit like a plug with an edge that fits over the outer skin of the hull) cheers paul..if anyone has a diagram on how they fit that would be great I imagine so. I understand that the current Victory is fundamentally different to what it was. Maybe someone more knowledgeable about the anatomy maybe of more use! Like you said, it was probably altered to accommodate its capacity as a tourist attraction! Cheers, Tom
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 25/04/2010 Posts: 748 Points: 2,285 Location: bognor regis
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cheers tom much appreciated cheers benny
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 Rank: Elite  Groups: Unapproved
Joined: 24/05/2010 Posts: 1,761 Points: 5,351 Location: London & Greece
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This is from John McKay's Anatomy of the Ship, 100-gun ship Victory (Conway press), which he says he researched to its Trafalgar condition. John 
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 25/04/2010 Posts: 748 Points: 2,285 Location: bognor regis
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thanks john i got totally confused after a bucket of beer down the pub at lunchtime and posted a load of rubbish...funny how a drunk mind works  cheers benny
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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z8000783 wrote:This is from John McKay's Anatomy of the ship which he says he researched to its Trafalgar condition. John Can I remind everyone of this if only for your own protection: "Dear All We have noticed that a number of unauthorised photos have been uploaded onto the forum. Further to recent discussions and legal advice, we understand it is illegal for us to make third party copyright works available on the web site without the consent of the copyright owner(s). This applies to downloading, uploading and/or linking. Apologies for any inconvenience this may cause. Kind Regards Admin" http://forum.model-space...ts&m=21553#post21553
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Rank: Elite Groups: Unapproved
Joined: 24/05/2010 Posts: 1,761 Points: 5,351 Location: London & Greece
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My understanding was that the port covers slammed into the gun-ports presumably using a friction fit in which case the rebates would not have helped and in fact hindered the seal.
However if this was the case I can's see how pulling on the rope would have opened then, they would have needed pushing from the inside first.
John
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Rank: Elite Groups: Unapproved
Joined: 24/05/2010 Posts: 1,761 Points: 5,351 Location: London & Greece
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I have been thinking some more about our build and now I am a bit confused (yes I know, what’s new?)
I thought initially the linings were going to be the recesses but clearly they are not. So the question is will there be recesses or not. The only reason I ask is because I wanted to keep the lower deck gun ports closed for my version and was wondering how to keep the covers in place.
John
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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In the normal Artesania Victory kit the ports are not recessed, therefore I think you can take it that the same will apply to the partwork version.
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Rank: Elite Groups: Unapproved
Joined: 24/05/2010 Posts: 1,761 Points: 5,351 Location: London & Greece
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Tomick wrote:In the normal Artesania Victory kit the ports are not recessed, therefore I think you can take it that the same will apply to the partwork version. Thanks Tom. So will there be a solution for those who want to keep the ports closed or will we have to work it out for ourselves? John
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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The steps for the model will more than likely reflect that the two stern and two bow ports either side of the hull as being closed, the rest will be open, anything outside of this will be up to the builder.
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Rank: Vice-Master  Groups: Registered
Joined: 13/10/2011 Posts: 851 Points: 2,628 Location: Leeds, Yorkshire
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z8000783 wrote:Tomick wrote:In the normal Artesania Victory kit the ports are not recessed, therefore I think you can take it that the same will apply to the partwork version. Thanks Tom. So will there be a solution for those who want to keep the ports closed or will we have to work it out for ourselves? John Hi John I was reading this thread and thinking where I had seen some really clear images to help people visualise how the gun ports are arranged on the Victory. I found what I was looking for and then went all round the houses to work out who I should acknowledge as the source. It turned out to be yourself! Here are the pictures from your November 10th collection!   I took the liberty of resizing and optimising them for the web. It is clear that the port lids are recessed and the port lid profile follows that of the hull either side. Good luck with the build! Mike T
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Rank: Elite Groups: Unapproved
Joined: 24/05/2010 Posts: 1,761 Points: 5,351 Location: London & Greece
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Thanks Mike
As someone pointed out though, the recesses there now are probably for the perspex windows that stop the rain getting in.
Anyway my question was about our build and whether I would have to figure out my own method for putting the lids down.
Just looking for a straightforward answer to a simple question as always.
John
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 13/10/2011 Posts: 851 Points: 2,628 Location: Leeds, Yorkshire
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Judging by those two pictures and others in your collection, the perspex windows are further back inside the gun port. Also, the shape of the hinges in your pictures suggest that the hatch covers sit back inside the port recess. I'm actually building the Jotika/Caldercraft Victory and in their plans they go to some pains to point out that gunports with lids should have a 1 mm recess.
I suppose the answer to your question John depends on whether you accept the inaccuracy of the build or go for the authentic solution which is well illustrated in your own photos.
Mike T
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Rank: Elite Groups: Unapproved
Joined: 24/05/2010 Posts: 1,761 Points: 5,351 Location: London & Greece
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Thanks Mike, that was a really helpful post, I know what to do now.
John
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Rank: Elite Groups: Unapproved
Joined: 24/05/2010 Posts: 1,761 Points: 5,351 Location: London & Greece
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Tomick wrote:[quote=z8000783]This is from John McKay's Anatomy of the ship which he says he researched to its Trafalgar condition. John Can I remind everyone of this if only for your own protection: "Dear All We have noticed that a number of unauthorised photos have been uploaded onto the forum. Further to recent discussions and legal advice, we understand it is illegal for us to make third party copyright works available on the web site without the consent of the copyright owner(s). This applies to downloading, uploading and/or linking. Apologies for any inconvenience this may cause. Kind Regards Admin" http://forum.model-space...s&m=21553#post21553[/quote] BTW this one did have permission. John
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