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 Rank: Elite    Groups: Unapproved
Joined: 24/05/2010 Posts: 1,761 Points: 5,351 Location: London & Greece
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Tomick wrote:It would appear that some experienced this and others not Thanks, any idea why? Mine was Ok although some of the other needed quite a bit of packing especially the bow rib, 12. Is this too much and will it give me a problem later on? It does give me a good bow shape though. Of course I also had to pack the parts 7 out as well. Bearing in mind all of our rib 12's and 15's, sit directly on the keel is there a reason they all seem so different? John  
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Rank: Elite Groups: Unapproved
Joined: 24/05/2010 Posts: 1,761 Points: 5,351 Location: London & Greece
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Any other comments welcome, I really don't want to make a mistake at this stage that's going to cause me real problems later on.
John
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Rank: Elite Groups: Unapproved
Joined: 24/05/2010 Posts: 1,761 Points: 5,351 Location: London & Greece
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I put this up on another thread so as not to intrude any further on Alan’s. cham-oo wrote:Hi Guys I am a Mechanical Engineer in the Automotive Industry directly involved with Computer Aided Design and Manufacturing. What Darren explained happens on a daily basis in all manufacturing industries world-wide. For instance: Manufacturer "A" uses Design Package "B" as it suits their business practices, but Supplier "X" uses Design Package "Y" when they design parts for Manufacturer "A" as they cannot afford Design Package "B". A codec (Coder/Decoder) "Translator Language" is written to make Design Package "B" understand Design Package "Y", but must also provide for Sub-contractor "V" which uses Design Package "W" as dictated by their Parent Company. Thus some translations are interpreted incorrectly, or in other words, something goes lost in the translation from English to Afrikaans via Russian as the Translator. It is the same with different speaking languages, No language translates perfectly to another. The problem is that there is no worldwide standard for computer languages or manufacturing practices. CAD package prices vary from hundreds to millions and businesses purchase what they can afford and that which runs on their existing computer systems. In a perfect world all 6 Billion of us would be able to speak all languages, dialects, understand all accents, cultures and slang. We tried to with Esperanto, but never succeeded. The same situation exists in the computer world and any CNC machines used in the manufacturing industry. So, no John, the advantages gained by using any automated process definitely outweigh any deficiencies.  Just imagine, some old gaffer somewhere in Spain cutting out these parts perfectly by hand. How long are we then going to wait for parts?  This subject is debated worldwide on a daily basis even more furiously than we do on this Forum. If you'd like more info, I'll gladly supply links to such Sites or Forums. Sorry for the long "elucidation"  Regards Jacques Thanks Jacques I agree with all that you say however your example of sub-contractors Y and Z seems a little over elaborate as an explanation for our parts. I must say if any of the engineering/CNC clients I work with and assess produced 100 off parts for one of their clients with the sort of variation we seem to be seeing here and then, when they were returned from their customer’s, they sent an email like yours in response giving the reasons for errors, then all I can say is that they would not be in business very long. I have seen engineering parts 100 times more complicated that these laser cut ribs, made to tolerance of +5/0 with no errors. So my question is not about the manufacturing but about Quality Control, do these people know about 1st off inspections, authorised samples, Goods-in checks and corrective action reports? Or is the response simply that it is not worth bothering with for the price we are paying. An old Quality saying is “it costs exactly the same to make it correctly as it does to make it wrong”. However the long term cost is that you lose customers as DAG nearly did with Alan and who knows how others have given up who they don’t know about. Anyway all I am looking for is DAG to say that this is the case or whether there is another reason. I have spent hours and hours in the past attempting to correct errors that I thought were mine only to find that it was a design or manufacturing fault. I have enough to contend with on this build without worrying about that as well. cham-oo wrote:Just imagine, some old gaffer somewhere in Spain cutting out these parts perfectly by hand. How long are we then going to wait for parts? Are they the only choices available for a model such as this? John
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 Rank: Pro  Groups: Registered
Joined: 23/03/2010 Posts: 205 Points: 598 Location: West Midlands
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We all know that this part work model is manufactured in China. Due to the much reported increase in labour costs China has asked for price increases over and above inflation. Throughout the many markets in Europe that they manufacture for there has been a marked resistance to pay any increase to cover the increases in labour costs with the end result being a marked drop in quality. The only solution is for DeAgo to pay more and reduce their profit margin or increase the cost of the weekly part work. They are unlikely to take less profit and I can just see the majority of subscribers agreeing to a price increase. We are all in this for the long haul, all we can hope for that DeAgo keep on top of the quality issue to the best of their ability, too much moaning at this stage may trigger a much worse scenario, and nobody wants to see this part work series end prematurely CMB 
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Rank: Elite Groups: Unapproved
Joined: 24/05/2010 Posts: 1,761 Points: 5,351 Location: London & Greece
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Did you get that from DAG? I have a number of clients who use Chinese subcontractors where the quality is excellent and the prices are good.
I think a statement that they are doing what you suggest is not inappropriate bearing in mind we are only 1/6 of the way through and I'll try to keep the moaning at just the right level.
Staying in touch and communicating with your customers is always a good policy. DAG seem about as bad as most other organisations at doing that.
John
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 Rank: Semi-Pro Level 1 Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/03/2010 Posts: 57 Points: 179 Location: bedford uk
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hi John
i have the same problem as you with part 7 i have sanded the ribs back to try to get a striaght run from i think rib 14 to part 7 after having to heavy sand rib 15 also. dont know what will happen when i get to fix out the inner area of the ship. hope this isnt gonna mess up the whole boat. it appears that what ever problems we throw at diag. they have an excuse or just ignore the problems
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Rank: Elite Groups: Unapproved
Joined: 24/05/2010 Posts: 1,761 Points: 5,351 Location: London & Greece
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Hi Darrend, sorry you have not had a response, I'll offer my thoughts but bear in mind this is my first build so I hope one of the experienced builders will pop by soon.
It's not easy to see from the diaries or Tomicks build but I believe there should be a slight curve in the planks once you have finished planking the bows. Because of the problem I had with rib 12 I also had to pack out part 7 but not to the extent that it filled the gap that you have. If you test the shape just above where the bow planking stops you will see the curve you need otherwise there will be a step outwards if you aim to keep all the top planking straight.
I would pull the plank you are testing inwards until it touches part 7 and then see where that leaves you with with ribs 13 and 12, and then either rub down or pack as necessary.
Hope that helps but if this is wrong then someone please correct it.
John
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Rank: Semi-Pro Level 1 Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/03/2010 Posts: 57 Points: 179 Location: bedford uk
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thanks for the reply John. going to have another look at the fairing and see if i need to do more. i can pull the plank in to reduce the gap, so a bit more fairing perhaps and see if that helps. ive posted a seperate post to see if tomick may answer when he looks in again
darren
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Rank: Elite Groups: Unapproved
Joined: 24/05/2010 Posts: 1,761 Points: 5,351 Location: London & Greece
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HI Darrend
Have you made a test plank for the bow yet? If so place this at the top of the bow about 2 cm below the top of rib 12 (pin it on if you need to). Now put the next plank on, which of course, only runs as far as part 7. This will follow the path of the bow test plank.
Notice the path it takes.
John
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Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 23/03/2010 Posts: 205 Points: 598 Location: West Midlands
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z8000783 wrote:Did you get that from DAG? I have a number of clients who use Chinese subcontractors where the quality is excellent and the prices are good.
I think a statement that they are doing what you suggest is not inappropriate bearing in mind we are only 1/6 of the way through and I'll try to keep the moaning at just the right level.
Staying in touch and communicating with your customers is always a good policy. DAG seem about as bad as most other organisations at doing that.
John My comments & observations were made after many of my collegues, who are still working in the toy trade, have visited various trade fairs througout the Far East. It may well be the case that prices in the automotive industry are still very competative comparewd to other markets, only time will tell. CMB
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Rank: Elite Groups: Unapproved
Joined: 24/05/2010 Posts: 1,761 Points: 5,351 Location: London & Greece
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CMB wrote:z8000783 wrote:Did you get that from DAG? I have a number of clients who use Chinese subcontractors where the quality is excellent and the prices are good.
I think a statement that they are doing what you suggest is not inappropriate bearing in mind we are only 1/6 of the way through and I'll try to keep the moaning at just the right level.
Staying in touch and communicating with your customers is always a good policy. DAG seem about as bad as most other organisations at doing that.
John My comments & observations were made after many of my collegues, who are still working in the toy trade, have visited various trade fairs througout the Far East. It may well be the case that prices in the automotive industry are still very competative comparewd to other markets, only time will tell. CMB Fair enough and thanks for the info. I'll continue to wait for a confirmation from DAG as well though. John
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