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 Rank: Beginner Level 1 Groups: Registered
Joined: 13/04/2011 Posts: 7 Points: 21 Location: Flensburg, Germany
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Hi all ~ I'm not quite sure if my question should be asked in the Build discussions section but here it goes.
Issue 47 tells us that the bitts were used to secure the anchor cables, issue 52 tells us to locate them on the upper gun deck to the rear of the medium grating in front of the main mast. I thought the anchor cables enter the hull at the lower gun deck where they should be secured on bitts when the ship was anchoring. I visited the actual ship a few times but can't recall if this is true or not or where on this deck the bitts should be located. At least McKay's AOTS do show it this way.
Anyway, for those building the cutaway version, the anchor cables - but not necessarily the bitts in front of the main mast - would be visible through the opening (if someone wants to represent the ship at anchor, when the anchors were not in use, I think the anchor cable went around a capstan and then down into the cable locker). It shouldn't be that difficult to build a new set of bitts for the lower gun deck. The question now is, if not for anchor cables, what were the bitts on the upper gun deck used for, if there are any at all?
Or am I missing something?
Any help is highly appreciated.
Happy modelling ~ Olaf!
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 Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Without Mike T having to repeat himself here's his info http://forum.model-space....aspx?g=posts&t=1975
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Rank: Beginner Level 1 Groups: Registered
Joined: 13/04/2011 Posts: 7 Points: 21 Location: Flensburg, Germany
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Hi Tomick ~ Thanks for your reply. I read Mike's comment, just forgot to refer to it in my post. Do I get it right that there are bitts located on either the lower and the middle gun deck?
I just can't imagine that the anchor cable is entering the lower gun deck from the outside and then leads "upstairs" to the bitts on the middle gun deck.
Are there bitts at all on the upper gun deck? For whatever purpose?
Looking forward to everyone's thoughts on this.
Happy modelling ~ Olaf!
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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If you have the McKay AOTS book, you'll notice that there are a number of Bitts terminology references, such as 'riding bitts', 'fore brace bitts', 'aft bitts' and 'fore top sail bitts' etc etc.
If you wish to add anything on decks which are not visible or the unseen parts of a deck, then I can only suggest you follow the book you have, which show's where such items are located deck by deck and notes what is what.
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Rank: Beginner Level 1 Groups: Registered
Joined: 13/04/2011 Posts: 7 Points: 21 Location: Flensburg, Germany
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To make matters worse, I have the German edition of the book. I understand that things can get lost in the translation process, but the bitts visible on the plans in this book are just named 'crossbeams' (lit. translated) at the main mast (upper gun deck level). Provided the page lettering and drawing numbers are the same in the English edition, I'm referring to #19 on drawing E3/2 on page 93. They seam to represent the crossbeam(s), one forward, one aft of the mast.
I understand the term 'riding bitt' as the bitts over which the anchor cable is running (at or near the foremast, as on page 33?),then belayed on the XYZ-bitts at the main mast (which could be utterly nonsense). This I think would be on the lower gun deck.
The reason for my initial post was just confusion. Model manufacturers are prone to mix up terminology. Just because something on the upper gun deck looks like XYZ-bitts doesn't necessarily mean those bitts were used for XYZ. And ... if the book is correct, we need two of them at the main mast. I don't want to model something that is not visible from the outside. If the second bitts (behind the main mast) will be visible through all the later to be added clutter is questionable...
Happy modelling ~ Olaf!
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 Rank: Vice-Master  Groups: Registered
Joined: 13/10/2011 Posts: 851 Points: 2,628 Location: Leeds, Yorkshire
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Daytona wrote:Hi all ~ I'm not quite sure if my question should be asked in the Build discussions section but here it goes.
I thought the anchor cables enter the hull at the lower gun deck where they should be secured on bitts when the ship was anchoring.
I think the anchor cable went around a capstan and then down into the cable locker). Or am I missing something?
Any help is highly appreciated.
Happy modelling ~ Olaf! Firstly an apology. In my post that Tomick refers to, I said that the riding bits were on the middle deck. They are in fact on the gundeck or lower deck. There are two sets for securing the cable whilst at anchor. The idea of the anchor cable going round the capstan is a common misconception. The cable would be too thick to bend round the capstan radius. Instead ships had a 'messenger' which was a continuous spliced loop of rope which passed round the main capstan towards the rear of the ship and, in the case of Victory, two rollers in the bows of the ship. The anchor cable came in through the hawse hole and was tied to the messenger using short pieces of rope supplied to the seamen by the ship's boys. As the capstan turned the messenger dragged the cable towards a hatch in the deck where the short piece of rope was untied as the cable passed through the hatch down into the cable tier on the orlop deck below. This process of tying on the cable to the messenger was known as 'nipping the cable'. The young boys who ran backwards and forwards passing the pieces of rope as the cable came in, were referred to as 'nippers'. Hence the phrase used today to describe young lads such as my grandson! He's a right nipper and almost five! Hope this helps to clarify the topic.  Mike T
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Rank: Beginner Level 1 Groups: Registered
Joined: 13/04/2011 Posts: 7 Points: 21 Location: Flensburg, Germany
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Hi Mike ~ Many thanks for your comprehensive reply. There's no need to apologise, such things just happen. Good to see that I'm not completely nuts, HA! Yes, the cable not 'around' the capstan, stupid me. I should have known better but my time in the navy was on ships 200+ years younger than Victory...  I recall the mooring lines where quite difficult to handle (and heavy!), especially when soaking wet. And those mooring lines where just a fraction of the diamater of Victory's anchor cable (and there was no heavy anchor attached to the other end...). Quote:He's a right nipper and almost five! I would have assumed something in the range of 'picker' as I imagined they could have used some kind of hooks instead of the messenger. Learn something new every day! Again, thanks a lot! Happy modelling ~ Olaf!
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