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 Rank: Beginner Level 3 Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/12/2017 Posts: 28 Points: 54 Location: USA
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Can you explain what makes the model space kits so high quality? Looking at the build log for the Soleil Royale, it seems to be paced and set up for a slow methodical build, that HELPS a person get a ship made.
What are the actual skill levels for each ship?
What makes the model space/artesian latina "swift" model kit different from the artesina latina "swift" kit I can buy online anywhere else?
I have seen in the last few years a change from the crappy European model kit instructions, ie the Racehorse, that basically gives you two post it notes of English instructions in a 30 page pamphlet.
I see that model shipways, caldercraft, have gone to very nice detailed instructions with photographs of almost every stage. SOME photos of kit contents by traditional European companies show similar outlook now in manuals.
I have been spending a few days now looking for a new kit to do. a few of the model space kits are very nice, but after that bad experience with racehorse, I do not want to "shoot" and just pick a kit randomly. Its about ease of assembly with me now and quality instructions.
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[size=6]Hi and welcome to ModelSpace,
To deal with your specific question. Some of the kits are essentially the same as you can buy through other retailers, other ships are developed either specifically for Modelspace or are added to or improved.
For example the HMS Victory offers a cut away section and a lot of quality metal crew that you cannot get elsewhere. But its not just about the Kit. the instructions are designed with a novice in mind so tend to be better than you may get with clear steps and methods explained.
But you also get the support of the forum, the official builds, the video builds the forum support team are all experienced modellers, who between them will have built most the kits being sold, so you know their advice has experience behind it unlike some of the dodgy advice you may get on other forums and youtube!
In my experience it is easier to resolve issues with your kit Modelspace will replace no quibble try doing that with some of the manufacturers out there.
finally you have the option to spread the cost and pay monthly as a part work
All in all you get more from the kit flexibility of purchase and bucket loads of support from the forum
Hope that answers your question.Jase[/size] “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
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 Rank: Super-Elite      Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/12/2013 Posts: 3,982 Points: 11,974 Location: NY, USA
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I remember the "good" olde days when wooden ship kits came with a set of plans and badly translated Italian "instructions". A lot of the companies have improved their instructions with photos of each stage.I have found the Deagostini kits often go a step further and explain the techniques involved in each stage of the build instead of just a pictures of a planked hull.I also find that the partworks in general help to avoid "builders fatigue" because they break the build up into sizeable parts so the builds are not so daunting.
Carl
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Rank: Beginner Level 3 Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/12/2017 Posts: 28 Points: 54 Location: USA
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The spread the cost out payment idea, is really nice. Its easy to get interested in a kit with a large 4-500$ price tag, but that price is a killer...
I wholehearted admit that the official build logs for the MS kits are really nice looking,and can inspire false confidence from how easily an advanced builder can put one together.
I used to do plastic kits in a single afternoon. I have seen one site that has the re released lindberg ship kits, like Jolly Roger, that I once built in perhaps 6 hours over a weekend building orgy,, take "accomplished modelers" 30-40 hours to build something that doesn't even look as nice as the box cover does..
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pocketshaver wrote:The spread the cost out payment idea, is really nice. Its easy to get interested in a kit with a large 4-500$ price tag, but that price is a killer...
I wholehearted admit that the official build logs for the MS kits are really nice looking,and can inspire false confidence from how easily an advanced builder can put one together.
I used to do plastic kits in a single afternoon. I have seen one site that has the re released lindberg ship kits, like Jolly Roger, that I once built in perhaps 6 hours over a weekend building orgy,, take "accomplished modelers" 30-40 hours to build something that doesn't even look as nice as the box cover does..
inspire false confidence - lots of beginners have been successful using these instructions, I don't agree its false confidence, you do have to be realistic about your skills and experience. I can certainly build a cheap plastic kit in an hour or 2, but like anything in life the more time you spend on it the better the results “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
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Rank: Beginner Level 3 Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/12/2017 Posts: 28 Points: 54 Location: USA
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http://modelexpo-online....tury-longboat-1-4-scale listed as advanced construction level http://modelexpo-online....oat-with-tools-and-glue
same kit with a paint and tool kit included, yet here is description: If this is your first wood ship project the MS1457 Longboat is the perfect starter kit. The longboat is a bit challenging, historically accurate and a true plank-on-frame model. http://modelexpo-online....lish-pinnace-1-24-scale
Same BASIC model, and construction technique, yet its ENTRY level. The greatest advice I have seen, repeated many times by many famous modelers who write books on modeling ships, etc is that Appearance of the finished kit photos CANNOT be used as a guide to diffuclty nor can the manual that comes with it. Nor can the complexity of the skills needed be seen in that manual or photo. On another ship modeling forum I joined in 2001, there was a fellow who had done scratch builds of victory, royal sovereign, and soleil royale to name a few, who was the toast of the forum because he was making museum quality kits that rivaled the work of Harold Hahn, simply by buying poorly drawn admiralty plans, who admitted he had never been able to complete a factory sold model kit.
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pocketshaver wrote:http://modelexpo-online.com/model-shipways-18th-century-longboat-1-4-scale listed as advanced construction level http://modelexpo-online....oat-with-tools-and-glue
same kit with a paint and tool kit included, yet here is description: If this is your first wood ship project the MS1457 Longboat is the perfect starter kit. The longboat is a bit challenging, historically accurate and a true plank-on-frame model. http://modelexpo-online....lish-pinnace-1-24-scale
Same BASIC model, and construction technique, yet its ENTRY level. The greatest advice I have seen, repeated many times by many famous modelers who write books on modeling ships, etc is that Appearance of the finished kit photos CANNOT be used as a guide to diffuclty nor can the manual that comes with it. Nor can the complexity of the skills needed be seen in that manual or photo. On another ship modeling forum I joined in 2001, there was a fellow who had done scratch builds of victory, royal sovereign, and soleil royale to name a few, who was the toast of the forum because he was making museum quality kits that rivaled the work of Harold Hahn, simply by buying poorly drawn admiralty plans, who admitted he had never been able to complete a factory sold model kit.
I have this Kit, and the opening of the Instructions state that many model builders find the challenge of a small boat greater than that of a larger ship. I would not recommend it to anybody as a first kit or any of their kits for that matter, they may be hi quality in terms of material but generally complex to build with an assumption of some wooden ship building experience.
As for the 'expert advice'. I have ready many books that say something along those lines. all well and good 20 years ago when you purchased a model from a shop and had the opportunity to look in the box and examine the kit, the plans and the instructions, but not relevant today. We now have to rely on the internet not just to purchase the kit but to understand it, thats why Modelspace covers kit reviews and shares the build diaries official and otherwise, you get everything in one place.
My advice to anybody new into the hobby or returning after a break is to spend some time researching the kits you like on line, have others built them what did they think of the kit, what issues are common, how complex is it really, its all on the internet you just need to spend time weighing up the options and being honest with your skill level. dont by big to begin with if you find its not for you its a lot of money to lose.
A small ship like a schooner or the blue nose is a good starting point.
This is a great first kit for example
https://www.model-space....e-sultan-arab-dhow.html[/color]
[color=darkred]Jase“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
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Modelspace kits are some of the best out there with the best instructions you can get. The HMS Victory has the best instructions with a video tutorial to add to it. There are also many builds on the forum to support you in many ways in your quest to build the kit.
Most of the models available also have video tutorial not just ship kits but cars, robots and sci fi.
The kits are available from 12 month,24month you also get newsagent releases which are weekly but you also get the chance on many to buy in full. All coming with online instructions and support of the forum.
The best beginner kit for a complete novice to wood kits would be the Arab Dow click. It will teach you many skills in how wooden ships are built. And give you understanding of how the bigger and harder kits are built.
All that though everyone has a different skill level, plastics are easier than wood so it would be a big step into but if you are good with you hands and measurements the wood kits would be a good step into. I built plastic for 20 years then bought a modelspace kit SanFran 2 , I had a couple of thinking moments but found it quite easy to get into.
Chris  On the bench 1/350 Revell Tirpitz Platinum Edition (Pontos PE and Wooden deck) plus extra Eduard PE set and extra MK1 door sets.
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Rank: Beginner Level 3 Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/12/2017 Posts: 28 Points: 54 Location: USA
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That dhow is nice, very nice. Built a plastic one once, turned out.
So far ive come to the conclusion to focus on small boats at this time, easy to do things that can get my skills back in shape. Relearn the "simpler" skills in small groups that will let me see how much my hand and arm injuries will impact my ability to take on a full sized model.
SO forth, I have found a few plans for small boats meant to be made with 1 or 2 sheets of plywood, not exactly the most complicated if I got some scale plywood sheets..
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Rank: Beginner Level 3 Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/12/2017 Posts: 28 Points: 54 Location: USA
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I figured out why the Model Space ship kits are so "comforting" when you look at them.
Its the little details that only a fully trained inspector can notice.
On the big photos used to sell the kits, when you zoom in on them, you can see small details that went un noticed and its actually a comfort to see.
On the Endeavor launch, the laser cut piece that is used to hold the mast up, is used "as is" from the fret without sanding or staining. instantly out of place, but yet its a NORMAL thing to overlook in real life.
Or on the Surprise and others, you can see the laser cut parts to make the fife rails were never sanded down either. And that the gratings and strips used to make hatch coamings, etc, still have loving split and splintered ends.
I actually think its a reassuring comment to the customer and new modeler that NOT everything needs to come out picture perfect. Should help with stress levels.
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 Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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pocketshaver wrote:On the Endeavor launch, the laser cut piece that is used to hold the mast up, is used "as is" from the fret without sanding or staining. instantly out of place, but yet its a NORMAL thing to overlook in real life. The Endeavour longboat kit is sold by ModelSpace but it is not a MS kit., it is the standard Artesania Latina retail kit and is only available as a full kit.
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