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 Rank: Pro  Groups: Registered
Joined: 31/03/2010 Posts: 194 Points: 446 Location: Gloucestershire
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Iam just painting the ships wheel and i was wondering if there was a mark of some sort on one of the spokes to tell the helmsman where midships was. Some wheels have a copper or brass cap on them, but iam not sure about Victory's helm. Would there have been some sort of rudder indicator in the binicle? i don't know, maybe The Holy One knows, he who must be obeyed(don't be stupid of course he know's).   Glen Roger the Cabin Boy
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 Rank: Vice-Master  Groups: Registered
Joined: 13/10/2011 Posts: 851 Points: 2,628 Location: Leeds, Yorkshire
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Hi Glen
That's a good question. Looking in my reference books, it appears that the wheel spokes are all the same.
Looking at the arrangement of the wheel and the rope drum, I would imagine that as the wheel is spun, the turns on the drum will tend to pay off at one end and take up on the other. Therefore when the rope turnings are halfway along the drum, the wheel will be midships. The wheel needs to spin through several revolutions to turn the rudder to each side.
Just looked in Seamanship in the Age of Sail by Harland and he says that typically the wheel would have 5 and a half turns of rope on the drum. With the tiller hard over to starboard(an angle of about 40 degrees), the turns were all on the forward half of the barrel.
He also mentions that the top spoke would be shaped slightly differently but that is not obvious in the Victory photographs I have seen.
If anybody has a more definitive answer I would be interested to hear it!
Mike T
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 Rank: Master    Groups: Registered
Joined: 15/04/2010 Posts: 1,266 Points: 3,841 Location: The Quantock Hills,Somerset
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Just been looking at all the photos I took & the ones kindly shared by Jase & I cannot see a different spoke on the wheel to denote midships neither can I remember seeing any,which looking back I did think was odd at the time. Rob Nolli Illigitimi Carborundum!!!Current Builds: HMS Victory, SV Thermopylae
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Can't say I've seen or read anything in this instance that particularly relates to Victory, but you could always email via the official Victory web site to ask the question.
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 20/04/2010 Posts: 545 Points: 1,536 Location: lossiemouth
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if one spoke is maked how would you know if it takes 10 or more turns to go full port to full stbd but one way is to have a splice rope in the middle of the rudder rope when that is centre to drum rudder centre they ues that ider when fishing to know how much rope is out each side to keep the net even ps if you lose 10meter of one rope chop 10 meter of other rope to keep the marks the same[ if there 5 turns on the drum then the splice is in the middle]
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Rank: Pro  Groups: Registered
Joined: 22/03/2010 Posts: 369 Points: 1,150 Location: Broadstairs
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Usually with this type of steering, a pointer mounted above the wheel would point to midships, port and starboard dependant on coarse being steered.
Maybe they had an ealier version of this ????
TIS
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 13/10/2011 Posts: 851 Points: 2,628 Location: Leeds, Yorkshire
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Tiswas wrote:Maybe they had an ealier version of this ????
TIS Read my earlier post, the angle on the rudder can be determined from where the turns of rope are on the drum. Mike T
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 Rank: Beginner Level 3  Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/06/2010 Posts: 20 Points: 60 Location: Wales
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In the past having read many books on navel history, you would find that the midships position was indicated by the uppermost spoke (usually set during the ships first sea trials) having either a metal cap on the tip of the spoke, or some cordage wound around the spoke similar to the way we did the banding on the anchor, this way it could be found without looking either in the dark of the moon, or the height of combat. In most cases the duty quatermaster (man in charge of the helmsmen) would be able to tell by feel, and by looking at the compass by the light of the binicle, that the ship was on an even keel.
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