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Help with copper plating Options
Deepseacodmaster
#1 Posted : 10 August 2011 14:00:26

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Hi All

My copper plates have arrived. It did not include any instructions on how to install)

Can any of the more experienced builders on this forum tell me were to start and how to overlap etc.

All help will be appreciated. Confused



First Build HMS Victory and HMS Endeavour
Also Krick steam boat "Victoria"


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Ivan (Ordinary Seaman)
http://www.old-glossop.com
Tomick
#2 Posted : 10 August 2011 15:24:13

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Posted previously via Admin....

There will be a step-by-step article in the articles section in the near future showing how to copper tile the HMS Victory hull. Owing to the long time in development that these bespoke tiles packs have had, we are just about to start coppering a HMS Victory model in readiness for the article now. As soon as we have the article with the step-by-step info ready for you we will let you know. We will post on here as well as the article appearing in the articles sections.

Deepseacodmaster
#3 Posted : 10 August 2011 16:26:07

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Tomick wrote:
Posted previously via Admin....

There will be a step-by-step article in the articles section in the near future showing how to copper tile the HMS Victory hull. Owing to the long time in development that these bespoke tiles packs have had, we are just about to start coppering a HMS Victory model in readiness for the article now. As soon as we have the article with the step-by-step info ready for you we will let you know. We will post on here as well as the article appearing in the articles sections.




Thanks for the info Mr T
First Build HMS Victory and HMS Endeavour
Also Krick steam boat "Victoria"


Cheers
Ivan (Ordinary Seaman)
http://www.old-glossop.com
Tomick
#4 Posted : 10 August 2011 16:35:40

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In the meantime this video clip give's an idea of what's involved and show's one of a number of techniques that can be used

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JWlSFzJ8uA
MWG
#5 Posted : 10 August 2011 18:32:22

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Great tutorial MR TCool
MWG BUILD DIARIES: HMS VICTORY, SOVEREIGN OF THE SEAS, SAN FRANCISCO II, HMS HOOD, HMS ENDEAVOUR LONGBOAT, HMS VICTORY X-SECTION, 007 DB5, NISSAN GTR, CUTTY SARK, RB7, AKAGI, BARK HMS ENDEAVOUR, HUMMER H1, MITSUBISHI ZERO.

Mike Turpin
#6 Posted : 10 August 2011 21:04:00

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Perhaps not such a good tutorial. There are two points to consider:

1. The practice in the Royal Navy was to stagger the sheets by a third and not halfway as shown in the video.

2. the plates were actually overlapped before rivetting. To achieve this however would probably require more sheets than have been allowed for in the DeAg package.

Mike T
Tomick
#7 Posted : 10 August 2011 21:36:02

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The link is just to give an idea of a coppering process, it was not intended as being that for the Victory, where you'll notice it is NOT a Victory model being worked on.

I take it your planning to overlap the Caldercraft tiles on your Calder Victory build which are designed to be butted and are unsuitable for overlapping, where when butted you end up with double rows of tack markings along each seam, where there should only be a single row of tacks if your hoping to achieve the true overlap effect.

In reality, few modellers overlap the tiling but opt for the butt method.

Also, research shows that in many cases, a 75mm wide batten may have covered the top edge of the plating at the waterline, which many builders adopt as being a tidy method for finishing the raw copper edge, which also makes it a lot easier to achieve a straight line without need of copper paint as a touch in, which I think you'll find your kit manual suggest's copper paint.

Food for thought eh Mike....
MWG
#8 Posted : 10 August 2011 22:17:38

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Am I correct in saying that at this scale you would not see the rivits in the copper tiles any way, I think its great that our tiles are plainCool
MWG BUILD DIARIES: HMS VICTORY, SOVEREIGN OF THE SEAS, SAN FRANCISCO II, HMS HOOD, HMS ENDEAVOUR LONGBOAT, HMS VICTORY X-SECTION, 007 DB5, NISSAN GTR, CUTTY SARK, RB7, AKAGI, BARK HMS ENDEAVOUR, HUMMER H1, MITSUBISHI ZERO.

Mike Turpin
#9 Posted : 10 August 2011 23:04:02

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Tomick wrote:
I take it your planning to overlap the Caldercraft tiles on your Calder Victory build which are designed to be butted and are unsuitable for overlapping, where when butted you end up with double rows of tack markings along each seam, where there should only be a single row of tacks if your hoping to achieve the true overlap effect.

Also, research shows that in many cases, a 75mm wide batten may have covered the top edge of the plating at the waterline, which many builders adopt as being a tidy method for finishing the raw copper edge, which also makes it a lot easier to achieve a straight line without need of copper paint as a touch in, which I think you'll find your kit manual suggest's.

Food for thought eh Mike....


Plenty of time for thought ... I'm a long way off coppering, having only just reached the end of the first planking. The idea of overlapping the sheets is to avoid the double row of rivets, the downside of that is that considerably more sheets are required and I have already discussed how many with Jotika. I understand that there are other modellers who have bought the extra sheets and intended overlapping at the time. I will try out the options before deciding on buying the extra.

Thanks for the tip re: waterline, you are correct in as much as the instructions suggest touching in a straight line with copper paint and even suggests copper paint for the end of the rudder and stern post.

I think that reading posts on all the forums makes it clear that you read the instructions and then think hard about improvements and I will bear the waterline tip in mind when I eventuaslly get to that job. Can't wait only stern galleries .. second planking etc etc first oh well!! Crying

Mike T
Mike Turpin
#10 Posted : 10 August 2011 23:07:55

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MWG wrote:
Am I correct in saying that at this scale you would not see the rivits in the copper tiles any way, I think its great that our tiles are plainCool


Opinions vary Mike. Might be true at smaller scales but I have tried making my own copper plates from plain copper sheet and compared them with ones I produced using a small tool for producing rivet dents at a scale spacing. In my view the 'rivetted' plates looked better, but you do need a lot of rivets per side, unlike the plates in the video.

Mike T BigGrin
Tomick
#11 Posted : 10 August 2011 23:13:17

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Some prefer the waterline strip as it adds to the finish, and like I said, there is reseaerch that suggests such a strip would have been in place.

Steady away and you'll end up with a superb model to be very proud of, modelling is not intended to be a race, other than enthusiasm to complete can sometimes get the better of you which occasionally means mistakes are the result.
MWG
#12 Posted : 10 August 2011 23:17:34

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Cheers Mike, to be fair I am happy there are no rivets but I also share your veiw that people prefer the rivit effect,but everyone must decide for themselves its a personal thing BigGrin
MWG BUILD DIARIES: HMS VICTORY, SOVEREIGN OF THE SEAS, SAN FRANCISCO II, HMS HOOD, HMS ENDEAVOUR LONGBOAT, HMS VICTORY X-SECTION, 007 DB5, NISSAN GTR, CUTTY SARK, RB7, AKAGI, BARK HMS ENDEAVOUR, HUMMER H1, MITSUBISHI ZERO.

Tomick
#13 Posted : 10 August 2011 23:19:06

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Mike Turpin wrote:
MWG wrote:
Am I correct in saying that at this scale you would not see the rivits in the copper tiles any way, I think its great that our tiles are plainCool


Opinions vary Mike. Might be true at smaller scales but I have tried making my own copper plates from plain copper sheet and compared them with ones I produced using a small tool for producing rivet dents at a scale spacing. In my view the 'rivetted' plates looked better, but you do need a lot of rivets per side, unlike the plates in the video.

Mike T BigGrin


The other problem is getting the number and size of tacks being right for the purist, which at the scale being modelled is nigh on impossible and comes back to the tacks being just about invisible hence why many leave them plain, though if one has too much time on your hands and have the inclination for tack marks, you could always pounce-wheel each tile LOL
Wilfy the Sea Dog
#14 Posted : 11 August 2011 20:32:48

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Keith Julier in his book The New Period Ship Handbook suggested & used a 0.5 x 1mm plastic microstrip as a batten along the waterline & painted it black. This was on his Caldercraft Victory build. I think Evergreen supply such. His description of fitting the plates is worth a read if you have a copy available.

Wilfy
Tomick
#15 Posted : 11 August 2011 20:53:47

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Exactly what I was suggesting, simply because research shows that there would have likely been such a wood strip.
jase
#16 Posted : 11 August 2011 22:07:24

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A couple of pics of copper plates on the real victory (photos are my collection) note that the overlap can not be seen so in my view overlapping on a model may become out of scale? also look how untidy the plating of the rudder is!

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
MWG
#17 Posted : 11 August 2011 22:11:10

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Hi Jase,

You are spot on!!!!Plain no overlap we have scaleBigGrin
MWG BUILD DIARIES: HMS VICTORY, SOVEREIGN OF THE SEAS, SAN FRANCISCO II, HMS HOOD, HMS ENDEAVOUR LONGBOAT, HMS VICTORY X-SECTION, 007 DB5, NISSAN GTR, CUTTY SARK, RB7, AKAGI, BARK HMS ENDEAVOUR, HUMMER H1, MITSUBISHI ZERO.

Tomick
#18 Posted : 11 August 2011 22:27:10

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The simple fact is that on the hull the plates were overlapped which is widely documented by those in the know including Longridge, though for model purposes most tend to a butt; some interesting info here

http://www.oldcopper.org...s%20victory%20copper.htm
MWG
#19 Posted : 11 August 2011 23:13:57

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Thank you Mr T thats gone straight into favorites, good readingBigGrin
MWG BUILD DIARIES: HMS VICTORY, SOVEREIGN OF THE SEAS, SAN FRANCISCO II, HMS HOOD, HMS ENDEAVOUR LONGBOAT, HMS VICTORY X-SECTION, 007 DB5, NISSAN GTR, CUTTY SARK, RB7, AKAGI, BARK HMS ENDEAVOUR, HUMMER H1, MITSUBISHI ZERO.

Eddieboy
#20 Posted : 12 August 2011 00:17:05

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Thanks Tomick and Wilfy for the great tip on using a battern for the waterline - I had problems with this area when I did the Pickle...

Ed,
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