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 Rank: Pro   Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/11/2017 Posts: 493 Points: 1,482 Location: South Norfolk
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Hello Modellers, I'm looking for advise from anyone who has experience with styrene sheets. I don't need it for modelling purposes but for my HMS Victory display cabinet. My cabinet is hanging from the loft through the ceiling above the staircase hence I need a decorative cover onto the bottom side. Previously I bought a sheet which used as underlay for laminate flooring. I covered one side with a decorative fabric. It was fixed to the frame by magnets (glued to the frame) and washers (sticked to the sheet). However I had problems to glue the washers to this plastic sheet, even with superglue, gorilla glue and others I tried. All the glues sticked to the washer OK but easily peeled off from the sheet. As a final resort I used strong duct tape but over time these also started to unstuck from the sheet. Now, to the styrene sheets, here are my questions: - Is it easy to glue fabric on it? For the underlay sheet I used diluted PVA for the fabric and I had no issue with it but because of the large surface I didn't expect issues. - Is it easy to glue metal washers onto the styrene sheet? If so, what glue would be good? - As an alternative how duct tape sticks to it? However glue would be the preferred option because if tape used then it lays between the washers and magnets make the contact slightly weaker. - How stiff is the styrene sheet? Is it bulging over time if not supported? I'm thinking to use 1.0 or 1.5mm thick sheet. There are several magnets around the frame but the area inbetween has no support (approx 300x300mm squares). The total are to be covered is approx 1350 x 550 mm, preferably by one big sheet in order to cover it with one piece of fabric. See photos below, the magnets are located at the frame 'junctions', each red sticker on the sheet covers one washer. I'm also open to any other alternative fixing methods instead of the magnet-washer method but it needs to be kept in mind that the total thickness of the cover sheet shouldn't be more than 2-3mm otherwise it wouldn't be flush with the wooden moulding around the frame and of course it needs to be removable without damage and no visible fixings underneath. Looking forward to hear from you and thank you in advance. gingerale75 attached the following image(s): Happy building! Laszlo Finished builds: HMS Victory, HMS Victory Cross-Section
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Rank: Administration      Groups: Registered, Forum Support Team, Administrators, Global Forum Support Team, Moderator, Official Builds Joined: 09/11/2012 Posts: 8,285 Points: 23,943 Location: East midlands
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Hi Laszlo,  Been looking at your question and need to ask you one. Does it have to be styrene, because if you are covering it, why can`t it be a thin plywood say 4mm thick that you could stain and varnish to match the cabinet. If plywood could do the trick then I think fixing it in place would become easier. Which ever material you use, a way of fixing it may be here in this ebay item number: 310933553755 Just copy and paste the number into an ebay search and you will see what I mean. You will just have to be careful with the length of screws you use. Regards delboy271155 (Derek) COME BACK GUY FAWKES "YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU"
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Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/11/2017 Posts: 493 Points: 1,482 Location: South Norfolk
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delboy271155 wrote:Hi Laszlo, Been looking at your question and need to ask you one. Does it have to be styrene, because if you are covering it, why can`t it be a thin plywood say 4mm thick that you could stain and varnish to match the cabinet. If plywood could do the trick then I think fixing it in place would become easier. Which ever material you use, a way of fixing it may be here in this ebay item number: 310933553755 Just copy and paste the number into an ebay search and you will see what I mean. You will just have to be careful with the length of screws you use. Regards delboy271155 (Derek) Hi Derek, Thanks for your advise, however unfortunately not good for me for three seasons: - The plywood/hardboard is 4mm thick plus the thickness of the covering fabric (1mm), hence it's is too thick for me, it would protrude too much from the recess. The aluminium frame sits 3mm deeper than the wooden frame around it. - The fixings what you mentioned are visible, see the second photo from my post for the desired result, I don't want visible fixings. (unless I misunderstood how do you think to use those fixings you advised. - Probably the plywood in that size would be too heavy for fixings which are not visible (magnet, velcro, etc), hence I tried the plastic underlay sheet before and looking for something light like styrene, but it could be any other light material. I was also thinking about a thicker single layer cardboard too (like picture frame backings), but it might bulging over time in the middle of the frame 'squares'. Maybe the styrene is more rigid? I don't know. But thanks for taking your time to think about it. Happy building! Laszlo Finished builds: HMS Victory, HMS Victory Cross-Section
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Hi there Lazlo! If, by styrene sheet, do you mean the standard Perspex type sheet that is available in the bigger DIY stores? I've used this in the past for building display cases etc. The normal thickness for these is 2mm but I've also used a 4mm for making a snake vivarium. As far as gluing washers to the sheet, superglue would do it fine, there are basically two ways of gluing this stuff - (well three including superglue) - it is either glued using a 'sticky' type glue like superglue or contact adhesive or it is 'welded' using a solvent based glue which melts two surfaces into each other. Superglue also melts the surface but not to the same extent. The problem with the solvent glues is that they can bleed away from the join and 'craze' the clear surface if you're not careful! The sheets are pretty rigid but I've not made a single sheet cover your size of 'box' before. You could remove any prospect of 'droop' by applying a strip of self adhesive velcro down the centre line of that beautiful display cabinet   For gluing the washers, I would suggest supergluing the washers in place and then using a two part epoxy glue to carefully go around the edges of the washers to reinforce the edge (it would be the act of removing the bottom which might flex the superglue joint and 'pop' it. As for attaching a fabric to the underside, there's two possibilities - either use a spray on carpet adhesive which will glue any type of fabric to the perspex (or anything else for that matter) or else use a roll of self adhesive felt, the sort of thing they line posh jewel boxes with (that may be what you've already got on the floor of the cabinet?)I think it's made by Fablon? That would look really smart. Hope this helps! Robin. First wooden ship: The Grimsby 12 Gun 'Frigate' by Constructo Second: Bounty DelPrado Part Works Third: HMS Victory DelPrado Part Works 1/100 scale Diorama of the Battle of the Brandywine from the American Revolutionary War Diorama of the Battle of New Falkland (unfinished sci-fi), Great War Centenary Diorama of the Messines Ridge Assault Index for the Victory diary is on page 1
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Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/11/2017 Posts: 493 Points: 1,482 Location: South Norfolk
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Plymouth57 wrote:Hi there Lazlo! If, by styrene sheet, do you mean the standard Perspex type sheet that is available in the bigger DIY stores? I've used this in the past for building display cases etc. The normal thickness for these is 2mm but I've also used a 4mm for making a snake vivarium. As far as gluing washers to the sheet, superglue would do it fine, there are basically two ways of gluing this stuff - (well three including superglue) - it is either glued using a 'sticky' type glue like superglue or contact adhesive or it is 'welded' using a solvent based glue which melts two surfaces into each other. Superglue also melts the surface but not to the same extent. The problem with the solvent glues is that they can bleed away from the join and 'craze' the clear surface if you're not careful! The sheets are pretty rigid but I've not made a single sheet cover your size of 'box' before. You could remove any prospect of 'droop' by applying a strip of self adhesive velcro down the centre line of that beautiful display cabinet For gluing the washers, I would suggest supergluing the washers in place and then using a two part epoxy glue to carefully go around the edges of the washers to reinforce the edge (it would be the act of removing the bottom which might flex the superglue joint and 'pop' it. As for attaching a fabric to the underside, there's two possibilities - either use a spray on carpet adhesive which will glue any type of fabric to the perspex (or anything else for that matter) or else use a roll of self adhesive felt, the sort of thing they line posh jewel boxes with (that may be what you've already got on the floor of the cabinet?)I think it's made by Fablon? That would look really smart. Hope this helps! Robin. Hi Robin, Thanks for your reply. As far as I know Perspex is an acrylic sheet which is not quite like the styrene. I heard that styrene is used by modellers very much for buildings (model train) or for scratch builds. But it's not necessary need to be styrene, any light and thin but fairly rigid material would be good. As you can see on the third photo, the base frame of my cabinet made of aluminium profiles where I can stick magnetic tape or something to it and metal strip to the cover sheet, but the areas between the profiles are 'empty' hence the cover must be rigid enough not to bulge downwards. That's what I tried to do with the underlay material I had already but nothing was sticking to it permanently. Therefore I'm looking for alternative materials. Happy building! Laszlo Finished builds: HMS Victory, HMS Victory Cross-Section
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Got you now! Yes, we do use styrene sheet for modelling, usually called Plasticard after one of the first companies that produced it, might have been Plastruct come to think of it. Plasticard is far less rigid than Perspex, especially in the 1-1.5mm thickness. The second problem although I may be wrong is that I've only ever seen it on sale through model supplies up to A3 sheets. I've bought a few of them for forthcoming scratch building projects, they come in a full range of thicknesses from about 0.1mm up to 5mm or above. It might be possible to get larger sheets direct from the manufacturers but it would be far more expensive than the equivalent in Perspex. Weight for weight, Plasticard and Perspex are about the same but in most modelling uses, styrene is glued to other styrene using mainly the welding type glues, its not so easy to fix different media like wood or metal to styrene. Superglue again will stick it to other things but it is still possible for the bond to come adrift some time down the road as the glue/styrene ages. Ah, hold on! I've just remembered where you could get the same thing in large sheets! Any store selling UPVC doors and windows should stock or be able to get hold of white styrene sheets up to 8x4ft - I lined my aviary shed with it!  Again, the gluing is a little problematic, its usually either screwed or glue welded but I think its either 3 or 4mm in thickness so it might be possible to fix the washers with a miniature nut and bolt, counter sinking the nut underneath for a flat bottom. Fablon or carpet glue should stick to it ok. Robin. First wooden ship: The Grimsby 12 Gun 'Frigate' by Constructo Second: Bounty DelPrado Part Works Third: HMS Victory DelPrado Part Works 1/100 scale Diorama of the Battle of the Brandywine from the American Revolutionary War Diorama of the Battle of New Falkland (unfinished sci-fi), Great War Centenary Diorama of the Messines Ridge Assault Index for the Victory diary is on page 1
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Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/11/2017 Posts: 493 Points: 1,482 Location: South Norfolk
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Plymouth57 wrote:Got you now! Yes, we do use styrene sheet for modelling, usually called Plasticard after one of the first companies that produced it, might have been Plastruct come to think of it. Plasticard is far less rigid than Perspex, especially in the 1-1.5mm thickness. The second problem although I may be wrong is that I've only ever seen it on sale through model supplies up to A3 sheets. I've bought a few of them for forthcoming scratch building projects, they come in a full range of thicknesses from about 0.1mm up to 5mm or above. It might be possible to get larger sheets direct from the manufacturers but it would be far more expensive than the equivalent in Perspex. Weight for weight, Plasticard and Perspex are about the same but in most modelling uses, styrene is glued to other styrene using mainly the welding type glues, its not so easy to fix different media like wood or metal to styrene. Superglue again will stick it to other things but it is still possible for the bond to come adrift some time down the road as the glue/styrene ages. Ah, hold on! I've just remembered where you could get the same thing in large sheets! Any store selling UPVC doors and windows should stock or be able to get hold of white styrene sheets up to 8x4ft - I lined my aviary shed with it! Again, the gluing is a little problematic, its usually either screwed or glue welded but I think its either 3 or 4mm in thickness so it might be possible to fix the washers with a miniature nut and bolt, counter sinking the nut underneath for a flat bottom. Fablon or carpet glue should stick to it ok. Robin. Thanks Robin, I'll have a look. Happy building! Laszlo Finished builds: HMS Victory, HMS Victory Cross-Section
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 Rank: Master   Groups: Registered
Joined: 29/03/2011 Posts: 1,053 Points: 3,165 Location: Glenvista JHB
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Hi Laszlo, Not sure if this will help. We use a material called 'Foam PVC or FOREX' It is basically a foam core sandwiched between two thin surfaces. It is a lot lighter than Styrene and comes in 3, 5 & 10mm thicknesses. Its surface is perforated and superglue adheres well. Thinking of your washers. In South Africa it is available from companies that sell signage materials. Kind regards, Garth "Measure twice, cut once!!!"
Finished!!! HMS Victory,
Current build: Black Pearl.
On hold: Bismarck, Golden Hind, Flying Scotsman, Victory Cross Section, SOTS, Tiger 1.
Wish list: USS Constitution.
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Rank: Administration Groups: Registered, Forum Support Team, Administrators, Global Forum Support Team, Moderator, Official Builds Joined: 09/11/2012 Posts: 8,285 Points: 23,943 Location: East midlands
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Hi Laszlo I`d never heard of the board that Garth has posted about but a quick search and I found some. Link here: https://plasticsheetsshop.co.uk/forex-boards/
Regards delboy271155 (Derek) COME BACK GUY FAWKES "YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU"
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Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/11/2017 Posts: 493 Points: 1,482 Location: South Norfolk
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Thanks Derek, Garth, I’ll have a look. Happy building! Laszlo Finished builds: HMS Victory, HMS Victory Cross-Section
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