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 Rank: Pro   Groups: Registered
Joined: 07/04/2011 Posts: 251 Points: 741 Location: Leeds
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Guys, I'm a first time modeller and its the first time i've come accross ABS glue, and i'm really struggling. I'm on part two so I'm glueing the vains underneath the wing, i've got the outside vain on the right to stick fine, trying the left outer vain and its just not sticking at all.. I've followed all the instructions.. remove the paint, sparsely applicated the glue, which by the way is the EMA Plastic Weld, and hold together for 1 minute, but then it just falls over  Excuse my lack of knowledge but do you have to remove ALL the paint in these areas? How much do you actually need to put on the connecting areas? I dont want to over applicate and then the model be done without half the paint job! Any help, advice, techniques, links will be of great help as this is driving me crazy!! i've searched the forum for a question like this, but none of the relating posts specifically match this - but sorry if I missed one. Thanks Building the McLaren MP4-23
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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 Quote:EMA Plastic Weld 57ml
Plastic Weld Cement - 1 x 57ml Bottle
Known to experienced model makers as EMA Plasweld, this solvent sticks all normal model making plastics, i.e. perspex, ABS, butyrate, styrene, acrylic etc.
It has a long shelf life, is fast acting (grabs in seconds), and has a water-like consistency so it is best used by holding or clamping the surfaces together and running a loaded brush or applicator along the length of the joint (solvent will be drawn into the joint by capillary action). A second application can be made if required, but is not normally necessary.
When joining dissimilar plastics, i.e. styrene to butyrate, the hardest material (in this case butyrate) should have the joint surface softened, by giving a light coat of solvent, prior to holding the surfaces together. Then proceed as normal.
Plastic weld cement should be used in a well ventilated area and contact with skin or eyes should be avoided (wash well with water if this occurs). Hi Senna94, I have investigated the glue that you are using, namely 'EMA Plastic Weld' and found the info above. In the third paragraph you'll note that it says: Quote:"When joining dissimilar plastics, i.e. styrene to butyrate, the hardest material (in this case butyrate) should have the joint surface softened, by giving a light coat of solvent, prior to holding the surfaces together. Then proceed as normal". Maybe that is your problem, if you aren't removing enough of the paint, as they would be two different surfaces that you are trying to bond, or maybe not using enough glue on each of the two mating surfaces?? Also, I note that the info says it has a water-like consistency. It would be better to use a thicker, almost Gel type glue that stays where it is put otherwise you could find your glue running where you don't want it and destroying the paintwork?? If you look at my build diary - "Kev's McLaren MP4-23 Build" - you will see that I am using 'Evo-Stik PVC Pipe Weld' for the ABS parts and it works a treat giving a very strong bond. I think the glue you are using may not be very good for purpose, as it is designed to weld lots of different plastics whereas mine is specifically for PVC/ABS and gives a very good bond indeed!! Best applied using small amounts on the end of a cocktail stick, it is available at any normal hardware store or B&Q, Homebase, etc for £3 - £4 and is enough for the whole build, but keep it away from any painted surfaces you want to keep as it will very quickly ruin them!! If you go and check Tomick's 'Official McLaren MP4/23 Build Diary', you will see that right at the beginning he warns you to make sure that your glue for the plastic to plastic construction is 'SPECIFICALLY' ABS compatible and not to use any normal 'polystyrene cement' type glues as they don't work on the plastic used in this model, not that EMA is specifically 'polystyrene glue but it does list it as one of the glues that it can be used on so maybe that is why it is not as good as a specifically ABS designed glue?? Check Tomick's Diary out and you will see what I mean and I think, from memory, that he even recommends a certain brand, though I could be wrong and that might be in another topic about glue somewhere?? Hope that helps?? ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Regards ... Kev
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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If the glue you are using has worked okay for you on the other gluing tasks already completed, then it should be okay for gluing the fins.
Possibly the solvent is being too sparsly applied and that it is vaporising before you mate the parts, and are you applying it to both contact surfaces.
If your struggling with EMA then possibly change to one of the tubed glues such as Evo-Stik pipe weld, solvent glues are not the easiest to work with if your not used their traits.
I wouldn't be tempted to use superglue for gluing the fins, there is minimal air circulation in this area, you'll likely end up with white residue around the bond.
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Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 07/04/2011 Posts: 251 Points: 741 Location: Leeds
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Cheers Kev and Tomick, Yeah it is very thin... but I've never done this before so pardon the lack of knowledge! I'll be invested in that pipe weld for sure... Can you apply with a brush? not that a cocktail stick wouldnt work but I like brushes a little better And yeah Tomick, It has worked on the wing up til now... but isnt as strong as I'd hoped... Sure the Pipe Weld will do the trick! Thanks alot guys, muchly appreciated! Building the McLaren MP4-23
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Senna94, only too glad to help and thanks for the response to my MTC question!! You could apply the Pipe Weld with a brush, though not sure what it might do to the hairs on the brush as it is quite potent!! If you slice the tip off a cocktail stick with a sharp craft knife to a narrow wedge shape it is much easier to control where you want to put it as the stick is rigid, or just use one with the point left on if you want a tiny spot of glue sometimes, whereas with a brush, there is always the chance that the brush may catch and inadvertantly 'flick' free, thereby flicking small amounts of a powerful glue onto your painted areas (disaster). Just squeeze a small blob of the glue onto a piece of scrap cardboard then use your cocktail stick to apply from blob to model. Also if you have to replace your 'Glue' brush on a regular basis because it becomes clogged, it becomes quite expensive, whereas you can buy a pack of cocktail sticks in their hundreds for less than a quid. You can also use each one many times by trimming back each time after use, then throw it away when it's too short!! Simples!! Ps: if you do damage your 'Silver' paint with glue, 'Halfords Chrome Spraypaint' (Blue can) is a very close match (barely noticeable) if you need to overspray the affected area?? Check out 'Warthogs build' (3x MP4/23) about the paint if you are not sure?? ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Regards ... Kev
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Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 07/04/2011 Posts: 251 Points: 741 Location: Leeds
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SennaMentalMe wrote: Senna94, only too glad to help and thanks for the response to my MTC question!! You could apply the Pipe Weld with a brush, though not sure what it might do to the hairs on the brush as it is quite potent!! If you slice the tip off a cocktail stick with a sharp craft knife to a narrow wedge shape it is much easier to control where you want to put it as the stick is rigid, whereas with a brush, there is always the chance that the brush may catch and inadvertantly 'flick' free, thereby flicking small amounts of a powerful glue onto your painted areas (disaster). Just squeeze a small blob of the glue onto a piece of scrap cardboard then use your cocktail stick to apply from blob to model. Also if you have to replace your 'Glue' brush on a regular basis because it becomes clogged, it becomes quite expensive, whereas you can by a pack of cocktail sticks in their hundreds for less than a quid. You can also use each one many times by trimming back each time after use, then throw it away when it's too short!! Simples!! Ps: if you do damage your 'Silver' paint with glue, 'Halfords Chrome Spraypaint' (Blue can) is a very close match (barely noticeable) if you need to overspray the affected area?? Check out 'Warthogs build' (3x MP4/23) about the paint if you are not sure?? Happy to help about the MTC Mate! Just checked the pics of the pipe weld and seen it down the diy store... Just finishing watching this film and I'll be on my way, Working all weekend though so no building for me  And yes... When you put it that way its a very valid point! I see I have much to learn in this model making! being Young and Dumb does sometimes not help! haha! Thanks again! Building the McLaren MP4-23
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Nothing dumb about asking for help as we all need to learn in the beginning and mistakes can sometimes be expensive, so if that can be avoided by asking for help, then that sure ain't being dumb, it would certainly be MORE dumb NOT to ask methinks!! Nothing wrong with being young either - wish I was back there!! Lol  Good luck with the build, by the way PS: BE VERY CAREFUL WITH THE 'PIPE WELD' GLUE - IT CAN BE VERY DAMAGING TO THE MODEL IF YOU GET IT EVERYWHERE!!______________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Regards ... Kev
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 Rank: Semi-Pro Level 1 Groups: Registered
Joined: 27/03/2011 Posts: 72 Points: 186 Location: United Kingdon
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I got the plastic adhesive from my local Wilko's, i cant find it on their website but its in a green tube, costs about £1 and is a lot easier to find than the cement stuff, works great too.
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Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 07/04/2011 Posts: 251 Points: 741 Location: Leeds
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SennaMentalMe wrote:
PS: BE VERY CAREFUL WITH THE 'PIPE WELD' GLUE - IT CAN BE VERY DAMAGING TO THE MODEL IF YOU GET IT EVERYWHERE!!
Gotcha  Building the McLaren MP4-23
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Rank: Semi-Pro Level 2 Groups: Registered
Joined: 27/07/2011 Posts: 99 Points: 293 Location: Marlow
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This may be Old Hat but the way of using Plastic Weld is quite simple and all you need to do is PUT THE ITEMS TOGETHER FIRST then apply PW to the join. It will weld by capillary action to give a solid joint, very little is needed, if you try coating both surfaces and then joining together it wont work because it evaporates in seconds.
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Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 27/05/2011 Posts: 256 Points: 774 Location: barrow in furness
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that pipe weld was the stuff i started using and still do sometimes depending on the parts im sticking together. it does evaporate really quickly which is the main problem. as bigmal0 said its intended use is to apply using a capillary action but this is obviously no good as you would end up with no paint left on the model. If at first you don't succeed........skydiving is not for you!
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