Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In | Register

7 Pages «<23456>»
Brushwork/Painting. Hints and tips (walkthroughs to follow) Options
hudsonrobert49
#61 Posted : 18 April 2010 10:11:46

Rank: Pro

Outstanding Build: An award for an outstanding buildBuild-Diary Medal: Build-Diary Medal of Honour
Groups: Registered

Joined: 25/01/2010
Posts: 459
Points: 1,367
Location: Bridlington
realy good work, well done.Cool
Regards

Rob

Bridlington.

Built Flying Scotsman (Train). Collecting HMS VICTORY
Capt Stedders
#62 Posted : 18 April 2010 10:23:31

Rank: Pro

Active Service Medal: 500 post active service MedalBuild-Diary Medal: Build-Diary Medal of Honour
Groups: Registered

Joined: 02/04/2010
Posts: 491
Points: 1,460
Location: Poole
After looking over yesterday's tutorial/s it seems that I neglected to cover a couple of key points (hey! there are only so many hours in a day after all..).

In the next part (either this evening or tomorrow) I will cover subjects such as painting things Black, scale issues and weathering. (theory mostly - but laced with practical suggestions and idea's). I'll also include a photo or two of the carriage (before painting) to help show how I remodeled it (lots of words yesterday, - not enough pictures)

I do appreciate your words of appreciation by the way and, if there is anything you are not clear about or you feel that I should clarify, please feel free to ask.

PS. As has been mentioned, there is no rush to complete this build and lets face it, the next couple of issues are rather devoid of fiddly bits, (save for second part of the the magazine instructions covering the carronades' tackle and blocks.).

@Zeptrader - Yes, I'm looking forward to that bit (and the stern detailing and the crew figures,lol) Painting highly detailed, small parts needn't be scary - there are quite a few methods that can be employed to make things easier AND get good results.

Schnellboots on back burner

Tools.


snowtiger
#63 Posted : 18 April 2010 10:31:57

Rank: Vice-Master
Active Service Medal: 500 post active service MedalBuild-Diary Medal: Build-Diary Medal of Honour
Groups: Registered

Joined: 26/03/2010
Posts: 600
Points: 1,959
Location: Solway West Cumbria
Classic tutorial Capt...many thanx....BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin

John..
Mac
#64 Posted : 18 April 2010 11:17:21

Rank: Pro


Groups: Registered

Joined: 20/03/2010
Posts: 278
Points: 833
Location: Nottingham
great tutorial as usual capt!
Pam's shipyard is closed for now no more room!




jonny7england
#65 Posted : 18 April 2010 13:48:29

Rank: Elite

Publisher Medal: Featured Build of the MonthActive Service Medal: 500 post active service MedalPurple Medal: Super active service medal for 1000 postsBuild-Diary Medal: Build-Diary Medal of HonourRed Medal: Red Medal
Groups: Registered

Joined: 22/03/2010
Posts: 2,065
Points: 6,295
Location: Gorleston-on-sea
Capt Stedders wrote:
Here's another handy use for blu tac.

Since I have been feverishly getting stuck into not one, but two carronade kits (one being for my build and the other for use as a painting tutorial and separate vignette), I thought I'd put this tip up early as I have discovered an interesting alternative to bending brass wire into the rings that secure the tackle (rope bits) to the cannon.

Fish hooks!

They're Grrrrreat!

Each one comes complete with a handy eyelet that just so happens, (once removed from the pointy end), to make a perfect alternative to making your own, or using ones that are somewhat out of scale.

The only drawbacks are that removing the eyelets from the small and rather dangerous hooks it results in either the coveted eyelet flies off, never to be found again - or the viciously barbed business end might fly off in the direction of your skin, or far worse, an eyeball (the need to wear safety glasses is therefore something of a no-brainer).

Anthoo, to prevent the loss of the eyelet, I have developed a technique that will ensure that you neither lose the eyelet - or your eye.



Simply press the eyelet into some blu-tac, as shown in the above photo and, (whilst carefully holding the pointy end), cut with a pair of wire cutters - I use an old pair of electrical wire cutters as cutting anything other than soft brass wire would mess my decent set up in no time).

The eyelet will be literally fired into the blu tac, making it possible for you to retrieve it safely (after a bit of digging about in the resulting hole..

Coming tomorrow... How to remodel and paint the carronade.

EDIT: I used one of the supplied brass eyelets for demonstration purposes as I had already cut all the hooks before I realised that this was quite a handy tip...

PS.
If you want to follow the remodeling walkthrough, also appearing tomorrow (for those of us either already wearing an anorak or maybe trying one on for the first time, you'll need the following..

2.5mm diameter styrene rod (or dowling)

5mm diameter styrene rod or tube (or dowling)

.5mm thick styrene card or strip

1x pack of 10x size 14 fish hooks

Greenstuff (Kneadatite), although Milliput will do at a pinch)



?x bucket loads of patience




Hello there Capt, again you have supplied us with some great info which has been downloaded for when it will be dearly needed...About the fish hooks and the barbs, being an ex angler, you can purchase barbless hooks from any anglers shop, I shall certainly be adopting hook eye technique thanks mate ThumpUp John
Current Builds: Deagostini HMS Victory: Deagostini HMS Sovereign of the seas. Completed Builds: Del Prado: HMAS Bounty: Hachette: RMS Titanic: Del Prado: Cutty Sark...
jonny7england
#66 Posted : 18 April 2010 21:14:14

Rank: Elite

Publisher Medal: Featured Build of the MonthActive Service Medal: 500 post active service MedalPurple Medal: Super active service medal for 1000 postsBuild-Diary Medal: Build-Diary Medal of HonourRed Medal: Red Medal
Groups: Registered

Joined: 22/03/2010
Posts: 2,065
Points: 6,295
Location: Gorleston-on-sea
Hi Capt Stedders, can I possibly pick your brains mate, I am working on my model of Cutty Sark and restoring it. I had originally stained it instead of painting it the way it should be..seeing you are well versed in the use of paints, can you tell me if it is possible to remove stain from a wooden model so that it can be repainted in the correct colours using, say, Humbrol paints...much obliged ...John..BigGrin
Current Builds: Deagostini HMS Victory: Deagostini HMS Sovereign of the seas. Completed Builds: Del Prado: HMAS Bounty: Hachette: RMS Titanic: Del Prado: Cutty Sark...
Dontshootme
#67 Posted : 18 April 2010 22:26:14

Rank: Master
Active Service Medal: 500 post active service MedalPurple Medal: Super active service medal for 1000 postsBuild-Diary Medal: Build-Diary Medal of Honour
Groups: Registered

Joined: 15/04/2010
Posts: 1,266
Points: 3,841
Location: The Quantock Hills,Somerset
Allan wrote:
excellent tutorial as usual just a shame no one can put it in pdf as this is something that can be referred to time and time again as painting was always my Achilles heel i am more of a manipulator of wood BigGrinBigGrin BigGrin
Allan

Here is a good FREE yes FREE piece of software to make pdf files
http://www.primopdf.com/index.aspx
Rob Nolli Illigitimi Carborundum!!!
Current Builds:HMS Victory,SV Thermopylae
Capt Stedders
#68 Posted : 18 April 2010 22:42:08

Rank: Pro

Active Service Medal: 500 post active service MedalBuild-Diary Medal: Build-Diary Medal of Honour
Groups: Registered

Joined: 02/04/2010
Posts: 491
Points: 1,460
Location: Poole
jonny7england wrote:
Hi Capt Stedders, can I possibly pick your brains mate, I am working on my model of Cutty Sark and restoring it. I had originally stained it instead of painting it the way it should be..seeing you are well versed in the use of paints, can you tell me if it is possible to remove stain from a wooden model so that it can be repainted in the correct colours using, say, Humbrol paints...much obliged ...John..BigGrin


I haven't a clue to be honest. However you can try the following test to see if the stain would bleed into any paint you apply to it.

If you plan to apply enamel paints (humbrol do both acrylics and enamels so be quite sure what type of paint you are going to apply - enamels contain volatile thinners that may react with the stain or make it more likely to bleed out). Acrylics are less likely to affect the woodstain.

Whichever type of paint you have, Do the following;

First (only if you are using enamels) get a bit of enamel thinners onto a piece of white cloth and gently rub a discreet area of the stained wood - if any noticeable colour comes away on the cloth - you may want to think about using acrylics.

Test 2. Apply a small amount of WHITE paint to a discreet area of the stained wood and allow to dry, repeat if necessary and allow to dry overnight - if there is any sign of colour coming through then, to the best of my knowledge anyway, you are stuffed..

Good luck and be sure to let me/us know how you get on.
Schnellboots on back burner

Tools.


Allan
#69 Posted : 19 April 2010 14:27:23

Rank: Pro


Groups: Registered

Joined: 23/03/2010
Posts: 202
Points: 528
Location: Bedfordshire
Capt
What primer would you recommend for the metal parts if using water based acrylic paint??
Allan
Capt Stedders
#70 Posted : 19 April 2010 17:43:03

Rank: Pro

Active Service Medal: 500 post active service MedalBuild-Diary Medal: Build-Diary Medal of Honour
Groups: Registered

Joined: 02/04/2010
Posts: 491
Points: 1,460
Location: Poole
Allan wrote:

What primer would you recommend for the metal parts if using water based acrylic paint??
Allan


I used the last of some Games Workshop 'Skull White' spray primer - but you could just as easily use Vallejo, Humbrol or even some Matte White spray primer from B&Q.

The GW and Vallejo primers are both designed for metal and plastic miniatures - but I wouldn't put too much trust in any finish painted directly over shiny brass staying there if put under duress,

In other words, whatever finish you apply, expect to have to do a few small touch-up operations later on.

Having said that, the longer that you leave the paint on without touching it or it coming into contact abruptly with another hard surface, the better chance the primer (or paint) has to bond with the surface you have painted - the carrier (water or solvent) may evaporate quite quickly (20 mins or so), but there are still processes going on in the chemical and physical make-up of the paint for a long time after that.


Painting 'Black'

Nine out of ten minature painters, if asked what colour they have the most trouble with painting convincingly, would say either Black or (funnily enough) Yellow.

Black is a problem as it is a hard colour to highlight, fine if you just want to slap a coat of black paint onto a part and consider the job done, but highlighting it can throw up a whole host of issues..

Take a look at the photo's of the real (fiberglass reproduction) carronade on board HMS Victory - the shape of the barrels, as we see them, is defined by the way that the light falls upon the rounded surfaces and the harder edges - it is more defused across the softer, rounder surfaces and quite defined on the edges

To be honest, looking at those photo's, you would be hard pressed to find much 'pure black' on the upper surfaces of the cannon barrels - it's all mostly shades of grey, with the black being confined to recesses and shadow.

This presents the painter with a bit of a problem - do they slavishly blend grey stripes on the barrels, feathering feathering them off to a smooth blend at the edges, replicating what they see in the photo? (which would in turn require the painter to continue the rest of the model with the highlights all suggesting the same light source - are your brains melting yet?).

Highlighting black is possible, the miniature below (35mm tall) has a completely matte finish - the definition of the edges and curvature of the armour plating is suggested almost entirely by varying shades of blue/grey paint

While you are looking at this pic, I'd like to draw your attention to the handpainted eagle on the tabard - it suggests gold braid, but was painted entirely without metallic paint - this is something I will cover when we get around to painting the crew figures (in particular, the officers) - Also check out the chest eagle - this is probably the finish I will choose for my crew figurines as I am not actually painting my build and think that a Hand carved Ivory effect would be more pleasing alongside the wood.

Anyway, Back to painting Black...

It's hard..

So, with the difficulty curve heading skywards, the best option is to find an alternative method that is a lot easier!

This is where scale is on our side. Even though we are building quite a large model, the actual scale of it is rather small and we can use that to our advantage by simply applying a satin/semi-gloss varnish to the black-painted barrels of our cannon and the various iron bits as this lets natural light sources do the work for us. (this rule only applies to black btw - if you want a nice, 3D effect on the carriages and other painted parts - highlighting (and leaving darker hues as shadow) is still the best way to go about it).

I did make an exception to this rule on the square carronade carriage part, highlighting it to suggest that paint had been worn off the wooden part - which brings me rather neatly to...

Weathering
Whilst weathering on a model can be a very pleasing effect, (especially on Military vehicles, aircraft and historical miniatures) I personally don't feel that it has a place on a museum quality ship model.

Before you even start thinking about the different textures of painted surfaces, you need to think about scale. At 1/84th scale, those flecks of dust that you can see on my last carronade pic could easily represent (at worse), parts of a 1/84 scale half-eaten sandwhich or, at best, discarded 1/84 scale chips..

The more I think about weathering techniques in relation to this model, the more I think it is a bad idea

However! There are some things you could do to 'weather' your build without making it look rather awful.

Thinking about weathering in terms other than mud, dirt, smoke residue, blood and dust and you will agree that other factors can play a part in the appearances of items. To explore this, let us first think about those crew figurines. Whilst the magazine portrays them in bold, flat colours - the reality would be rather different.

A combination of sun, salt water, wear and tear and dirt would take its toll on the dyes of the fabric (less so on the uniform of the officers and marines, due to their different operational duties and quality of the fabrics) - if you watch Master&Commander on DVD (or better still, blu-ray) you would be very hard pressed to find any trace of 'Persil Whiteness' or colourfast fabric - nope, most of the crews attire is clean but, due to the effects of the previously mentioned elements, has acquired what could be loosely described as a 'patina of age'. Items that were, at some stage, almost white have, over time evolved into items that are now varying shades of pale brown (with a hint of grey). The items that were once deep blue have faded/become washed out are still blue - but a subdued shade of their former rich colour - the same with red coloured clothing - now best described as a reddy brown orange - once again the uniform of the marines and officer being an exception.

The Officers would, I believe have paid not only for their commissions, but also their uniforms - probably having more than one set - the fabrics would therefore be far superior to that of the men under their command (who had no actual uniform as such)- even so, there would be very little 'pure brilliant white' about their breeches, stockings (the nearest thing to white due to the silk) and waistcoats which would be best represented by very pale biege.

I'll go into more detail when we get the figures and will suggest a range of Vallejo colours in advance of any tutorials. For now, I'll return to the subject of weathering on the ship itself.

Having mentioned the effects of various elements upon the crews clothing, it follows that the same elements affect the appearance of various fittings and structures on board the ship itself.

Let's look at the thorny issue of 'Authentic' colour.. Authentic in what way exactly? A few months of glorious sunshine and atrocious weather at sea and I can pretty much guarantee that your 'Authentic' yellow ochre would no longer accurately resemble the colour you first applied - and that's even before you start to take into account elements of scale.. (yes, scale affects the colour too.. the further you are from an object - let's say a brick - the paler that brick will appear).

As a rule, simply subduing any colours (by making them fractionally paler) will give a good representation of weathering, without the need to make things look dirty.

Dirt and grime can be represented (if you really must) by using so-called 'weathering powders' (simply finely ground artists pastel colours) and brushed on using a make-up-brush - but be warned, get it wrong and you'll just end up with a dirty looking model as opposed to a authentically weathered one.

Simply painting all your cannon and fittings in the manner discussed in the last tutorial will give you a very pleasing effect and bring the various parts of your ship to life without the need to dirty things up.



Schnellboots on back burner

Tools.


Macmedal
#71 Posted : 19 April 2010 17:52:30

Rank: Semi-Pro Level 1

Groups: Registered

Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 66
Points: 191
Location: Britannia
Quote:
The Officers would, I believe have paid not only for their commissions, but also their uniforms - probably having more than one set - the fabrics would therefore be far superior to that of the men under their command (who had no actual uniform as such)- even so, there would be very little 'pure brilliant white' about their breeches, stockings (the nearest thing to white due to the silk) and waistcoats which would be best represented by very pale biege.


If/when we get the figurines I can help a lot with the uniforms as I have researched this topic thoroughly having had made an 1812 pattern Post Captains uniform in the recent past, just a shame the scale of them will hinder some of the effect !

By the way Royal Naval officers did not pay for their commissions unlike their Army counterparts, promotion was a combination of merit based on success, skill and of course patronage. BigGrin
Capt Stedders
#72 Posted : 19 April 2010 18:13:32

Rank: Pro

Active Service Medal: 500 post active service MedalBuild-Diary Medal: Build-Diary Medal of Honour
Groups: Registered

Joined: 02/04/2010
Posts: 491
Points: 1,460
Location: Poole
Macmedal wrote:

If/when we get the figurines I can help a lot with the uniforms as I have researched this topic thoroughly having had made an 1812 pattern Post Captains uniform in the recent past, just a shame the scale of them will hinder some of the effect !

By the way Royal Naval officers did not pay for their commissions unlike their Army counterparts, promotion was a combination of merit based on success, skill and of course patronage. BigGrin


Any pictures and details you might share will be gratefully recieved - so thanks! (in advance!)

Thank's also for correcting my error in assuming that the Senior Service operated in the same way as the Army - save for the patronage bit of course ; )

Schnellboots on back burner

Tools.


Mac
#73 Posted : 20 April 2010 20:30:15

Rank: Pro


Groups: Registered

Joined: 20/03/2010
Posts: 278
Points: 833
Location: Nottingham
Many thanks Mike for the transfer of Hints and tips.... into pdf format. I really appreciate it.
Pam's shipyard is closed for now no more room!




snowtiger
#74 Posted : 20 April 2010 21:11:48

Rank: Vice-Master
Active Service Medal: 500 post active service MedalBuild-Diary Medal: Build-Diary Medal of Honour
Groups: Registered

Joined: 26/03/2010
Posts: 600
Points: 1,959
Location: Solway West Cumbria
Johny7...here is a quick tip ....first sand down the affected area then use ...plastic primer.it seals and primes all at the same time...you can get that from most car shops ...it is clear amd makes a good base ...followed by a light spray of white car primer, acrylic paints will not stick without it.....after that it is ready for the main coat(s)....of acrylic paint..
let me know how it goes...BigGrin BigGrin

John..
amipal
#75 Posted : 20 April 2010 23:55:56

Rank: Pro

Build-Diary Medal: Build-Diary Medal of Honour
Groups: Registered

Joined: 20/04/2010
Posts: 141
Points: 426
Location: Worthing, United Kingdom
@Capt Stedders
You certainly know your art sir! I've played with green stuff before, so may well try out the moulding techniques to add some more detail to various parts of the Victory.

I was also on the lookout for painting tips with Vallejo paints - I'm used to Citadel, but have heard nothing but good things about them. Very glad I found this post.

Keep up the good work! Cool
Allan
#76 Posted : 21 April 2010 06:40:36

Rank: Pro


Groups: Registered

Joined: 23/03/2010
Posts: 202
Points: 528
Location: Bedfordshire
Capt
If i can ask a question?
RUST has always been a problem for me to replicate do you have any tips on how to achieve this effect convincingly ??
Allan
Capt Stedders
#77 Posted : 21 April 2010 10:27:08

Rank: Pro

Active Service Medal: 500 post active service MedalBuild-Diary Medal: Build-Diary Medal of Honour
Groups: Registered

Joined: 02/04/2010
Posts: 491
Points: 1,460
Location: Poole
Allan wrote:
Capt
If i can ask a question?
RUST has always been a problem for me to replicate do you have any tips on how to achieve this effect convincingly ??
Allan


As you say, rust is quite a tricky weathering effect to pull off in a convincing manner and whilst there are a several methods of suggesting rust quite effectively (even peeling paint!), there are so many variables including the scale you are working in, the type of model, the level of decay you wish to portray and where it would actually appear in real life that it would be hard to cover all the bases in a simple tutorial or a few lines of tips.

If you'd like to PM me, telling me exactly what you want to portray, I will happily advise you accordingly.




Schnellboots on back burner

Tools.


Allan
#78 Posted : 21 April 2010 10:55:16

Rank: Pro


Groups: Registered

Joined: 23/03/2010
Posts: 202
Points: 528
Location: Bedfordshire
It's just the effect like when you see metal going through the wood (nails) you always see a rusty area running from it(not necessary peeling)
lol i find it hard to explain but it's the brown residue that runs from it

Allan
Capt Stedders
#79 Posted : 21 April 2010 19:57:11

Rank: Pro

Active Service Medal: 500 post active service MedalBuild-Diary Medal: Build-Diary Medal of Honour
Groups: Registered

Joined: 02/04/2010
Posts: 491
Points: 1,460
Location: Poole
Allan: Firstly you'll get your hands on a couple of pots of Games workshop inks, namely 'Dark Brown Ink' and 'Chestnut Ink'

Or (depending on the scale) Some burnt umber, Orange and Near Black artists Pastel sticks

Using the example you gave, I would apply a small 'blob' of Dark Brown ink around the protrusion (Capillary action will make the ink 'hug' itself around raised edges and around internal edges something that can be used to advantage in many situations).

Then, using a damp brush, dipped in Chestnut ink (TIP!! always pull your loaded brush over something - I use my thumnail - before applying paint to a part - this will not only remove any excessive paint but give you a good indication of how the paint will flow from the brush when you do apply it to your model). drag the point of it directly down from the 'nail' or other such protrusion. How far is up to you

Being ink, it will tint the surfaces and will give an effect as shown in the following pic - Mainly noticeable at the corner of the drivers window. The chipped paint effect was simply an extension of the technique



Where a softer finish is required (say, staining down the sides of a hull), finely ground artists pastels (or 'weathering powders' can be used to get a very pleasing effect - simply pick powders in the orange to brown colour range and brush them on, as you might paint. (use some soft, old brushes).

Schnellboots on back burner

Tools.


lee.takel
#80 Posted : 21 April 2010 20:34:59

Rank: Semi-Pro Level 1


Groups: Registered

Joined: 05/04/2010
Posts: 52
Points: 167
Location: Scotland
Thanks for the tips Capt Stedders
Users browsing this topic
Guest (2)
7 Pages «<23456>»
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF | YAF © 2003-2009, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.222 seconds.
DeAgostini