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 Rank: Vice-Master     Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/01/2011 Posts: 865 Points: 2,410 Location: Cambs
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after many attempts at using the needle system for the ratlines, i have given up and decided to tie them instead. but when i look at the picture in the magazine of victories ratlines they look much thinner than the shrouds, so the .25mm thread seems too big, so i've been looking arond for pictures and found this http://www.stvincent.ac....ory/images/ratlines.jpg
this shows how thin the ratlines are in comparasin to the shrouds, so should we really be using 1mm or 1.5mm thread as this would give a better scale compared to the real thing. this picture also shows that they would actually be tied, not threaded through as per the magazine. Come on you Jimmies
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 Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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The ratline used in the mag steps is the supplied 0.25mm thread, you can of course opt for a finer thread is you so choose.
If you read the mag info, it does note that ratlines on the real ship are tied, and can be tied if you wish, but that the needle method is a an alternative for the reasons noted.
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/01/2011 Posts: 865 Points: 2,410 Location: Cambs
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sorry tomick the magazine says that the ratlines are ties on a real ship, but that doing it with the needle gives a much more realistic appearance, which to me suggests that that is how they were done on victory when obviously they were not, and as the magazine has made the statement about being realistic and also mentions about knots being overscale , then surely to be realistic and to be more to scale the ratlines should be thinner. tomick please do not take this the wrong way, i am not complaining about how you or the magazine have shown how to fit the ratlines, it is purely a comment that as the magazine itself has brought up the matter of realism, then realism should apply to all parts of this process, it reminds me of fitting the gun rigging where the blocks looked too big for the guns, and the magazine in that instance said that they looked overscale due to manufacturing limitations, when clearly you can by smaller 2mm and 3mm blocks elsewhere. Come on you Jimmies
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 Rank: Super-Elite     Groups: Registered
Joined: 04/04/2010 Posts: 3,955 Points: 11,809 Location: uk
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hi saint,don't be too hard on tomick,he has to follow the mag,so that the newbees can attain a reasonable standard of finish,the more experienced builders already know that the ratlines are generally a quarter of thickness of the shrouds,and are always tied.I was surprised myself when I saw the ratlines sewed into the shrouds,never seen that before.their has been a few tutorials about tying the ratlines,I think s.o.b.and magpies builds. Current builds: SotS, USS Consitution, San Felipe, D51 loco, HMS Surprise, RB7, Arab Dhow, Jotika HMS Victory Completed builds: HMS Pickel, Thermopylae, Mississipi river boat, Mary Rose, Cutty Sark, San Francisco II, HMS Victory x5, Titanic Lifeboat, Panart HMS Victory Launch, Hachette Titanic, Virginia Schooner, Endeavour Longboat. http://www.model-space.com/gb/
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Like Karl says, I do not come up with what the mag provides in terms of procedure or parts supplied.
Sadly it seems that some choose to moan at anything and everything at every opportunity, of which this forum seems to have more than its fair share of.
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/01/2011 Posts: 865 Points: 2,410 Location: Cambs
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hi karl i did say that i was not complaining about tomick, i know that he is tied to the magazine, or should i say sewn to the magazine  and that he has to stick to whatever the magazine says, and defend the company line. in fact i feel sorry for tomick because i am sure there are things he would change if his hands were not tied.(sewn) like you karl i have never seen that way of doing ratlines before, and all i was trying to express is that if the magazine says do one thing for realism, then surely anything connected to that part of the build should be realistic as well. Come on you Jimmies
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Hi Saint and Karl!  I tried trying the clove hitches to the shrouds but this didn't work as well as sewing did, I got in so many knots  The method of sewing the ratlines to the shrouds tends to be done on ships made to a scale where it wouldn’t be practical to try the ratlines, at this scale 1/84 you can use both methods. I myself have use 0.15mm thread to sew the ratlines and at this scale it looks OK! and if the shrouds are pulled in slightly you can pull them back to the correct placement easily, if I tied them, it would be harder to adjust them. Saint try using sewing thread instead of the 0.25mm thread supplied to get thinner ratlines, the clove hitches will be in better scale but it is slow work and you might find you need to adjust the clove hitches a little, so leave some extra thread at the ends. Little tip :- if you sew the ratlines after sealing the thread and cutting the ends, paint the ends with black paint to hide the light end of the thread. Darron
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