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Brushwork/Painting. Hints and tips (walkthroughs to follow) Options
Allan
#81 Posted : 21 April 2010 21:17:58

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Thanks Capt
its just what the doctor ordered just got to get the supplies nowBigGrin BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin
Allan
Capt Stedders
#82 Posted : 22 April 2010 23:49:17

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Speaking of supplies, I shall be compiling a list of Vallejo paints that you might like to get your mittens on before we get any mini's (or other decorative parts). If all goes to plan, I will be doing a set of three tutorials aimed at beginner, improver and advanced levels of painting so that whatever your level of skill with a brush, you will have some handy tips to refer to.

Meanwhile, I have been fiddling around with bits of string and runny superglue in an attempt to create convincing-looking restraining ropes and tackle on the carronade - the next tutorial will be for the more masochistic amongst us..
Schnellboots on back burner

Tools.


Capt Stedders
#83 Posted : 23 April 2010 17:53:07

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As promised, here are the lists of the paint colours that I anticipate we will need for the crew miniatures when they get supplied. the colours listed below are from the Vallejo Model color paint range (not to be confused with their Game Color range), along with some Games Workshop inks and are all water based acrylics. As you can see, I have created three lists, the first list is for modelers who wish to develop or enhance existing skills and make the most realistic, lifelike job of their crew figures, the second list is for those who want to add a little extra dimension to their crew figures but want to take an easy route, the third list is for those of you that just want to paint their minis to a smart 'toy soldier' standard.

I have tried, where possible, to reduce the number of colours that you may need to buy and, when the time comes to do the tutorials, will advise on mixing ratios.

IMPORTANT UPDATE..

It has come to my attention (thanks Pam) that GW no longer stock the inks that I have listed and,in their infinite wisdom have decided to call the inks 'washes' - whether that means that the level of opacity has been reduced,I simply don't know.

However, it appears that they now do three brown 'washes' and at an educated guess would say that 'Devlan Mud' would be the ink formerly known as Dark Brown and 'Gryphonne Sepia would be a pretty good substitute for 'Chestnut Ink'.


Advanced
- will use shading and highlighting plus NMM (Non Metallic) Metallic techniques plus some light inking)

Vallejo Model Color

1 White
5 Ivory
8 Beige
15 Flat Yellow
21 Medium Fleshtone
26 Scarlet
31 Flat Red
50 Dark Prussian Blue
54 Royal Blue
65 Andrea Blue
104 Stone Grey
127 Ochre Brown
140 Flat Brown
150 German Cam Black Brown
169 Black.
195 Glaze Medium

GW Inks

Chestnut
Dark Brown

NOTE: at this level, you will need some high quality brushes - I recommend Windsor&Newton Series 7's in size 1 and 0 (you can go for a smaller size if you want, but I don't think it is necessary). I usually pay £9 a pop for my brushes so be warned, they are not cheap! I'd also recommend the use of an optivisor - see below.


Intermediate;
will use inking techniques for a pleasing, if not too demanding, 3D look to the miniatures - not too hard)

1 White
5 Ivory
21 Medium Fleshtone
26 Scarlet
54 Royal Blue
104 Stone Grey
140 Flat Brown
150 German Cam Black Brown
169 Black.
171 Silver
172 Gold

GW Inks

Dark Brown

Note: Whilst you won't be using any really advanced techniques at this level, you'll still need some high quality brushes - I'd still recommend a couple of W&N Series 7's but Vallejo or Games Workshop do some good quality alternatives at a (LOT) cheaper price point

Beginner class (Beginners - just a simple, neat paintjob with just a touch of extra class)

1 White
5 Ivory
21 Medium Fleshtone
26 Scarlet
50 Dark Prussian Blue
54 Royal Blue
104 Stone Grey
140 Flat Brown
150 German Cam Black Brown
169 Black.
171 Silver
173 Old Gold

Note: Whilst you won't be using any really advanced techniques at this level, you'll still need some high quality brushes - I'd still recommend a couple of W&N Series 7's but Vallejo or Games Workshop do some good quality alternatives at a (LOT) cheaper price point

Optivisor.


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Whatever your level of prowess with a brush, it will certainly come in handy to get a little extra assistance when painting (or assembling) fiddly parts. I have (due to encroaching squintiness) been relying on this wonderfully sartorial pair of German made vision enhancers for several years now and have only just picked up a pair of cheaper ones due to my originals only coming with one set of lenses.

The fact that optivisors work in the same way as glasses allow the wearer much better depth perception than say, a single lense magnifying glass and have the added advantage of coming supplied with a variety of lenses allowing different levels of magnification (Most useful when it comes to the rigging I would assume - with the higher magnification lenses allowing a working distance of around 4-6" the last thing you'd want is to be continually head butting a spar as you try and focus on some part that is further away).

Schnellboots on back burner

Tools.


Capt Stedders
#84 Posted : 24 April 2010 23:46:54

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For those of us that couldn't wait and simply had to glue the eyelets into the carronade platform before the rest of the instructions arrived *looks guilty*, fear not! all is not lost - merely a little more complicated, maybe..

Before I move on to describing what can best be described as a 'novel way' to making the tackle/rigging on the carronade, I'll have a quick rant about textiles and illustrate the method I used to make some extremely handy 'iron rings' which can be almost magically be fitted over painted brass rings with minimum damage risk to the paint!

First, textiles... I hate textiles - you cant paint onto anything made with natural fibres (with the notable exception of leather) without it ending up looking matted and messy - imagine painting your favourite woolen jumper - think for a moment about how it would look - capture that thought...

Cotton and hemp twine, used for rigging model boats is made of... yup, natural fibres.. when viewed under even rudimentary magnification you can see thousands of fluffy little fibres sticking out everywhere..

Since the model we are building is a scaled down version of the real thing it necessarily follows that if we were to magnify our model x85 times, we would have a life-size model of HMS Victory...

Now, do the same with that cotton... imagine how it would look eighty five times bigger - the rigging of the real HMS victory would look as is every rope were encased in freshly blow-dried poodles...

You cant paint a poodle and expect a smooth finish either..

This rant actually serves a useful purpose - apart from making my dislike of mixing textiles and scale modeling abundantly clear, it leads me on to illustrating how sometimes the enemy can also be a friend via a peculiar alliance with superglue....

Health and Safety advice.. Don't do this unless you are supremely confident with very runny superglue - you could use cellulose dope instead (with adequate ventilation) but it will take a while longer. I cannot stress enough that the following technique is fraught with potential mishaps - try it at your own risk.

First, find a drill bit of a suitable diameter - this will be the internal diameter of your 'iron ring'. Next pick a suitable gauge of thread to represent the iron ring. Simply tie the thread once, as if tying a very basic knot, around the drill bit. TIP, try applying some thinned down PVA glue to the thread and setting it aside to dry before tying, it helps dampen down some of those stray fibers and grips itself easily when tying knots..

Now comes the dodgy bit..

Very gently and very carefully apply the tiniest amount of runny superglue to the wound part of the thread - capillary action will draw the superglue around the entire 'ring' if you get it right (you may need to force your 'ring' off the drillbit, but it isn't too hard to do with the bunt edge of a knife).

The superglue effectively stiffens the fibers of the thread, plasticising them into the bargain so once the hoops are removed from the drill bit and the surplus ends are cut off you can then paint them - this is the only time I ever advocate using thick, un-thinned paint, as it will disguise the rough texture of the string.



Not perfect - but since you'll only get to see the good bits of each ring, the following benefit outweighs the effort

You can now cut into one edge of the ring and, the superglue having given it a certain springiness, it can now be gently opened up and teased over a painted brass
eyelet and when in position you can let it spring back into shape (TIP! add a dab of superglue between the ends to re-seal the ring)

Once the join has sealed - add another dab of paint and fix the ring into a natural position with a further dab of superglue.

You can now thread your restraining ropes.

Another problem I have with cotton or hemp thread is that it always behaves 'in scale' - many a great looking wooden model ship is let down by 'floaty rope syndrome'. If you look at a photo of the cannon on the real ship, the restraining rope looks heavy - because it is - and drapes itself accordingly over points of contact. Cotton isn't heavy and the resulting scale effect is ghastly to behold.

Using superglue for purposes it was never intended comes into its own again as with a bit of experimentation, you will discover that you can 'sculpt' your cotton thread to make it appear weighty and thus more in-scale.



I have added iron (string) rings to the restraining rope in order to secure the gun to the hull (simply cut, twist, pop over the ring in the hull and that's it!)
Schnellboots on back burner

Tools.


MWG
#85 Posted : 25 April 2010 10:12:39

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Fantastic tutorial! Capt, keep up the good work,I will use your technique.
MWG
MWG BUILD DIARIES: HMS VICTORY, SOVEREIGN OF THE SEAS, SAN FRANCISCO II, HMS HOOD, HMS ENDEAVOUR LONGBOAT, HMS VICTORY X-SECTION, 007 DB5, NISSAN GTR, CUTTY SARK, RB7, AKAGI, BARK HMS ENDEAVOUR, HUMMER H1, MITSUBISHI ZERO.

jonny7england
#86 Posted : 25 April 2010 17:03:43

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As per usual, you have delivered some pretty damn fine stuff Captain Stedders, no doubt about it you are an inspiration mate, you taut me some things today, thanks mate, downloaded an stored for future reference, now where do I send the cheque?? LOL
Current Builds: Deagostini HMS Victory: Deagostini HMS Sovereign of the seas. Completed Builds: Del Prado: HMAS Bounty: Hachette: RMS Titanic: Del Prado: Cutty Sark...
Dontshootme
#87 Posted : 25 April 2010 21:00:10

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Quote:
You can now cut into one edge of the ring and, the superglue having given it a certain springiness, it can now be gently opened up and teased over a painted brass
eyelet and when in position you can let it spring back into shape (TIP! add a dab of superglue between the ends to re-seal the ring)


I am a little confused here(not a difficult achievment by any means!)
When you say "it can now be gently opened up and teased over a painted brass
eyelet" do you mean as a covering or an extra ring added to the eyelet?ie representing an ringbolt with an iron ring through the eye which would obviously be free moving.
Sorry if i'm asking an obvious question but I am having a "blonde day" today..so the other half tells me anyway...probably something to do with putting the boiling hot kettle in the fridge instead of the milkBlushing
Rob Nolli Illigitimi Carborundum!!!
Current Builds:HMS Victory,SV Thermopylae
Capt Stedders
#88 Posted : 25 April 2010 23:22:33

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dontshootme:


Your question is most easily answered with a photo...


In this picture there are four such rings fitted to the carronade, two (one either side of the carronade carriage which the large diameter rope passes through after falling from the thimble and two more at the end of this rope that will attach to the hull) I have yet to add a further two to the tackle arrangements for the same purpose.
Schnellboots on back burner

Tools.


Mike Turpin
#89 Posted : 26 April 2010 00:35:26

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Hi Rich

My only observation on your carronade build so far, is to question the length of your breeching rope. It doesn't seem long enough considering your carronade is in the forward position and therefore when the ropes are fixed to the sides of the hull, they wouldn't allow a full recoil equal to the length of the slot in the bed.

Something which I am sure can be corrected at a later stage before fitting the carronade and it's associated tackle when we have a ship to put it on!

I'm basing my thoughts on the picture #16 post on this topic

Carronade

Cheers

Mike T

Capt Stedders
#90 Posted : 26 April 2010 10:27:58

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Scared

Eeep!

Damned if you are not right Mike.. Crying

BUT!! I have just noticed that in the picture of the model carronade (#6 I think, posted by Zeptrader) in the same thread that I have also positioned the tackle arrangement in the wrong place - if that model is correct then there are four sets of tackle..

However, in that picture the breeching rope looks even shorter than mine...

Confused

So, its either back to the drawing board and remake the tackle assembly (and continue my obsessional quest to find the ultimate, non fluffy and malleable twine) - or simply go with things as they stand (the easier option by far).

Hmmm..


Schnellboots on back burner

Tools.


Mike Turpin
#91 Posted : 26 April 2010 10:59:49

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Hi Rich

Yep it's post #8 and again the breeching rope does seem to be too short. That carronade would not be able to recoil and allow reloading! Forgive me for being the ano**** on this one. We are looking on the modelling from two different angles. I doubt whether I will ever take the surface finishing to the levels that are being proposed in your excellent walk-throughs. Although I promise to try harder!

Rather than the asthetic priority I am trying to view the functionality and historical accuracy as paramount. It's where our approaches converge that the best models will result!

By the way, getting back to your obsession with fluffy rope, Longridge in his 'The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships' has a good chapter on ropes including his model rope walk used for all the rigging lines on the Science Museum Victory. He also was worried about fluffiness and his solution was to pass his ropes across the flame from a small spirit lamp to burn off the hairs without scorching the rope.

Mike T
Capt Stedders
#92 Posted : 26 April 2010 11:47:08

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Cheers Mike.

I am glad you brought up the issue of getting a balance between 100% historical accuracy and an aesthetically pleasing model as its actually an important point.

After looking at my model Carronades and the photographs of the real things, I came to the conclusion that trying to add two more sets of blocks and tackle would neither be practical (partly due to the fiddliness of making them in this scale) or make the model look nicer (getting the shorter set to 'hang' correctly around the breeching rope would not only be extremely difficult, but would probably end up looking a little too fussy - and therefore slightly messy if it was not done accurately.

I welcome your critique as not only is it well intentioned and informative but it helps to prevent any laziness creeping into my build, (within practical limits as pointed out above).


Schnellboots on back burner

Tools.


amipal
#93 Posted : 26 April 2010 15:23:14

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@Capt Stedders
Dang, wish I'd scrolled further down this post before ordering my paints! Oh well, got half of them from the cannonade tutorial. Cool

Anyone buying paints, Wayland Games have good prices on Vallejo.
andylangtree
#94 Posted : 27 April 2010 20:21:25

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Capt can you kindly have a look at this on Ebay and tell me if these are the correct paints and what you think of the price.
Cheers
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vallejo-M...&hash=item4ce75e6026
Capt Stedders
#95 Posted : 27 April 2010 23:38:15

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andylangtree wrote:
Capt can you kindly have a look at this on Ebay and tell me if these are the correct paints and what you think of the price.
Cheers
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vallejo-M...&hash=item4ce75e6026


Yep, they are indeed the real deal and at a really good price too (my local hobby store charges £1.85 per pot).

I must emphasise that, as with all paints, a really good shaking is required - especially new ones.

@ Zeptrader. - well, I'm mightily impressed by your woodworking skills, so we're even

Laugh
Schnellboots on back burner

Tools.


Zeptrader
#96 Posted : 27 April 2010 23:41:03

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Is that the thread supplied to us in the kit and did you bleach them?
Capt Stedders
#97 Posted : 27 April 2010 23:54:13

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Zeptrader wrote:
Is that the thread supplied to us in the kit and did you bleach them?


No, its a combination of thread from a Heller HMS Victory kit, Top Stitch thread from a haberdashery in Dorchester, and some Billings twine (which is, surprisingly, the fluffiest of the lot).

If you do use superglue on cotton, it does have the effect of giving it a kind of translucency, especially on the finer threads - to regain the desired opacity I mixed VMC Chocolate Brown with VMC Ivory at a 3/97 -ish ratio.

:NOTE!!
Never, Ever, get a paintbrush anywhere near superglue unless you are 100% sure it has cured. (it can be a horribly expensive mistake).

Schnellboots on back burner

Tools.


ginian
#98 Posted : 01 May 2010 09:51:49

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Think Captain Stedders should be promoted to first sea lord for the valuable information he is supplying. It will save us countless hors and repairs. Many thanx skipper
Allan
#99 Posted : 01 May 2010 10:16:56

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When brushing on paint such as Caldercraft Victory paints is it best to use thinned or un-thinned for the best possible finish???
Allan
karl1113
#100 Posted : 01 May 2010 10:23:36

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cpt.stedders, great teach-in again,but I think people should consider buying a selection of threads/rope/twine, I go to caldercraft models, for mine, I get it from. .5mm - 2.5mm. in black and natural.saves helleva lot of messing.
another thing i remember you having trouble threading dead-eyes etc.the first thing i do is drill out the existing holes with 1mm. drill,then, wait for it, a tiny drop of thin superglue on the end of the thread then cut the end when dry, to a point, works every time for me,and also when rigging you will get poked in eye whilst wearing head magnifying glasses.BigGrinbut I am going to try the tip someone put up,a needle threader, the wire type, thanks, looking forward to the next one.
Current builds: SotS, USS Consitution, San Felipe, D51 loco, HMS Surprise, RB7, Arab Dhow, Jotika HMS Victory
Completed builds: HMS Pickel, Thermopylae, Mississipi river boat, Mary Rose, Cutty Sark, San Francisco II, HMS Victory x5, Titanic Lifeboat, Panart HMS Victory Launch, Hachette Titanic, Virginia Schooner, Endeavour Longboat.

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