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 Rank: Beginner Level 3 Groups: Registered
Joined: 27/01/2012 Posts: 28 Points: 84 Location: Netherlands
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Hi Victory builders, I need your knowledge. I try to make my Victory as realistic as possible. Therefore I made two doors in the beakhead.  Both turns open in opposite directions. But turns the right door to left or right? McKay shows left.  But I found a photograph on boatmodelling.com showing the door turns inwards.  Can anyone tell me the truth? Jan Zwart Current build: HMS Victory
Already built: Half moon, Stadt Bremen.
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 Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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I would go as per the photo.
Please be mindful not to post images without approval from the image owner.
Thanks
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I to have this book and have visited and photographed the ship. it is not the only anomaly near the roundhouses. McKay clearly shows the ports next to the doors sitting level with the bottom of the door. yet my Photo clearly shows it is actually at the top level with round house roof. There is is no list of research given in Mckays book thus it is secondary source material we have no guarantee of its accuracy or where the original information comes from. The trust that looks after Victory however are constantly updating and authenticating its research so I would go with the Photo also However just to muddy the waters a little more. A number of the gun ports in the bow also have an inner door section. I guess this is to limit spray entering the ship. It could be that she has inner and outer doors!! hope that helps  “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
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Hi Janzwart. The two doors that you are modelling definately open outwards and both have their hinges on the side closest to the centre line of the ship, ie, they open swinging towards the bowsprit. The door in your photo would have to be an inner door as its too thin to cover the whole doorway (there must be a second one just out of shot on the right) It makes sense of course to have an inner 'seal' door, this area of the Victory would receive the full brunt of a heavy sea and nobody would want an inward opening door with all that weight of water hitting it!  Good luck with your doors Robin First wooden ship: The Grimsby 12 Gun 'Frigate' by Constructo Second: Bounty DelPrado Part Works Third: HMS Victory DelPrado Part Works 1/100 scale Diorama of the Battle of the Brandywine from the American Revolutionary War Diorama of the Battle of New Falkland (unfinished sci-fi), Great War Centenary Diorama of the Messines Ridge Assault Index for the Victory diary is on page 1
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There is a nice picture of the roundhouse on this link that shows the open external door http://www.google.co.uk/...d=1t:429,r:10,s:0,i:118
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
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Nice picture there Jase, 'ere, wait a minute! My gun ports aren't that low down! Have a happy christmas! First wooden ship: The Grimsby 12 Gun 'Frigate' by Constructo Second: Bounty DelPrado Part Works Third: HMS Victory DelPrado Part Works 1/100 scale Diorama of the Battle of the Brandywine from the American Revolutionary War Diorama of the Battle of New Falkland (unfinished sci-fi), Great War Centenary Diorama of the Messines Ridge Assault Index for the Victory diary is on page 1
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Rank: Beginner Level 3 Groups: Registered
Joined: 27/01/2012 Posts: 28 Points: 84 Location: Netherlands
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Thanks Jase and Robin, Your comments explains a lot of things. I am glad with it. Also the double door system opens my eyes too. The picture you showed, Jase, shows exactly what I wanted to see. Also the heigt and place of the stool is like I found in McKay's book, which is very different what DeA suggests to make. Also the low placing of the port is conform McKay's. However they now reach to the deck while McKay shows a high threshold. That will be one of the changes made on the Victory, Jase refer to. This is what McKay shows:  All this gives me a lot to do to build on further. Thanks a lot again. I will show some pictures here when I am ready with it, to show the results. And also I wish you and your families a happy christmas and new year Jan Zwart. Current build: HMS Victory
Already built: Half moon, Stadt Bremen.
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Hi Janzwart Glad to be of help. I've been looking back through my own reference books again at this area of the ship and I think the safest thing is to follow the dimensions given in the McKay book. Jase's photo definately shows the gun ports down to the deck level but I suspect that this is a really strange error that has been built into the Victory during one of her many refits, the photo in the McKay book that shows her in 1900 with that horrible black and white colour scheme also shows that her bow section was radically altered from both the present day appearance and her 1805 Trafalgar construction with no visible bulkhead at all (inside the fully rounded hull I would think). To have the bow chaser gun port right down at deck level makes no sense for two reasons, firstly it would make the port horribly prone to serious flooding in heavy weather and secondly, the whole point of having the port there is to fire the pair of bow chaser cannon forward, the way the lids are now it would be very difficult to elevate the barrels sufficiently to shoot at anything without blowing off her own beakhead side timbers!  That flooding problem would of course not be so dangerous to a ship on permanent display in a dry dock, so I think that's when the changes were made. Anyway, on the precut bulkhead on my DelPrado the doors and gun ports were already stamped out and were virtually identical to the McKay dimensions, AND I'M NOT CHANGING IT NOW!!! Happy Building! Robin First wooden ship: The Grimsby 12 Gun 'Frigate' by Constructo Second: Bounty DelPrado Part Works Third: HMS Victory DelPrado Part Works 1/100 scale Diorama of the Battle of the Brandywine from the American Revolutionary War Diorama of the Battle of New Falkland (unfinished sci-fi), Great War Centenary Diorama of the Messines Ridge Assault Index for the Victory diary is on page 1
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Plymouth57 wrote:Hi Janzwart Glad to be of help. I've been looking back through my own reference books again at this area of the ship and I think the safest thing is to follow the dimensions given in the McKay book. Jase's photo definately shows the gun ports down to the deck level but I suspect that this is a really strange error that has been built into the Victory during one of her many refits, the photo in the McKay book that shows her in 1900 with that horrible black and white colour scheme also shows that her bow section was radically altered from both the present day appearance and her 1805 Trafalgar construction with no visible bulkhead at all (inside the fully rounded hull I would think). To have the bow chaser gun port right down at deck level makes no sense for two reasons, firstly it would make the port horribly prone to serious flooding in heavy weather and secondly, the whole point of having the port there is to fire the pair of bow chaser cannon forward, the way the lids are now it would be very difficult to elevate the barrels sufficiently to shoot at anything without blowing off her own beakhead side timbers! That flooding problem would of course not be so dangerous to a ship on permanent display in a dry dock, so I think that's when the changes were made. Anyway, on the precut bulkhead on my DelPrado the doors and gun ports were already stamped out and were virtually identical to the McKay dimensions, AND I'M NOT CHANGING IT NOW!!! Happy Building! Robin Agree in tis case stick to the book - however be very always worth cross referencing these things. “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
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