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 Rank: Amateur Level 1  Groups: Registered
Joined: 04/10/2012 Posts: 33 Points: 14 Location: Dublin
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Is possible in reality the Launch was more big than the cannons?  building:
Mayflower,SOTS
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 Rank: Vice-Master      Groups: Registered
Joined: 23/03/2010 Posts: 507 Points: 1,571
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Well dont know about the SOTS launch but the Victory`s is 34 feet
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 Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 27/02/2013 Posts: 228 Points: 664 Location: Bursledon
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According to this web page the launch was 50 feet 10 inches long and 12 feet 6 inches in beam. Scaled down to 1/84 this gives 184mm by 45mm. http://www.bruzelius.inf...B/Sovereign_of_the_Seas(1637).html There would also have been a pinnace and a skiff. I don't know if we will get these with the kit.
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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Number and dimensions of the Sovereign’s boats are given in several sources: May, W.E. (2003) The boats of men-of-war [/i], London: Caxton, p18; Sephton, J (2011),Sovereign of the seas, the seventeenth century warship, Stroud: Amberley, Appendix 40.
The establishment of the Sovereign seems to have followed standard practice.
In 1640 the Sovereign had an establishment of three boats. These were:
Length Breadth Depth
Longboat 50’10” 12’9” 4’3”
Pinnace 36’ 9’6” 3’3”
Skiff 27’ 7’ 3’
Sephton confirms these figures. Hayward’s navy list, 1660, suggests there had been no change in the size of these boats (Sephton, Appendix 40)
In 1688 the Sovereign still had an establishment of three boats. These were:
Longboat [no figure]
Pinnace 33’
Yawl [no figure]
If we convert the dimensions of the ‘ship’s boat’ kit provided in issue 8 on a scale of 1:78 it comes, as far as I can determined, quite close to the ‘skiff’ in 1640 (length 27’8”, breadth 9’9” compared with length 27’, breadth 7’). The other two boats would be substantially larger. There is a Van De Velde drawing of c.1675 in the Canterbury Royal Museum showing the longboat being hoisted in (or out), and it appears to take up the whole of the waist. See Konstam (2011), Warships of the Anglo-Dutch Wars p47.
CEC
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 Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered
Joined: 29/05/2013 Posts: 1 Points: 9 Location: South Africa
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Hi All, I'm also building the launch. A bit of interesting history I dug up from Brian Lavery's (A top British ship historian)book "The Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War". He tells us that "Launches" were only introduced into the Royal Navy as ships boats in the 1780's....long after the SOTS finally dissapeared from service. These superceded "Longboats" which would have been used in SOTS time. Interestingly, he also tells us that the longboats of SOTS time were very long and could not easily be stowed on board ship due to their length, and were thus towed astern. If you look at the link provided by Captain David it tells us that the SOTS "Longboat"(not launch)was 50ft 10inches long. This is unusually long as most longboats in Nelsons day(some 130 years later) were typically about 30ft long. This pretty much bears out what Brian Lavery says. From this it is obvious that SOTS did not have a "launch" in realtiy, but a Longboat which is different shape to a launch. The boat supplied By Deagostini is definately a "Launch" in shape. The question is why Deagostini have made this error, but I suspect I know the answer. The launch provided with SOTS is basically identical to the launch provided for the DeAgostini Victory partwork from what I can see and the same length. The Victory did indeed carry a launch which is correct. I suspect that DeAgostini and Artesania Latina found it easier to throw in a duplicate of the Victory launch instead of manufacturing a custom 50ft Longboat for SOTS. The launch will probably fit better on SOTS than a 50ft longboat if you decide to mount it on deck. Its not really a big deal unless you are obsessed with authenticity like me !!!! Hope this helps
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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bruce72 wrote:Hi All, I'm also building the launch. A bit of interesting history I dug up from Brian Lavery's (A top British ship historian)book "The Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War". He tells us that "Launches" were only introduced into the Royal Navy as ships boats in the 1780's....long after the SOTS finally dissapeared from service. These superceded "Longboats" which would have been used in SOTS time. Interestingly, he also tells us that the longboats of SOTS time were very long and could not easily be stowed on board ship due to their length, and were thus towed astern. If you look at the link provided by Captain David it tells us that the SOTS "Longboat"(not launch)was 50ft 10inches long. This is unusually long as most longboats in Nelsons day(some 130 years later) were typically about 30ft long. This pretty much bears out what Brian Lavery says. From this it is obvious that SOTS did not have a "launch" in realtiy, but a Longboat which is different shape to a launch. The boat supplied By Deagostini is definately a "Launch" in shape. The question is why Deagostini have made this error, but I suspect I know the answer. The launch provided with SOTS is basically identical to the launch provided for the DeAgostini Victory partwork from what I can see and the same length. The Victory did indeed carry a launch which is correct. I suspect that DeAgostini and Artesania Latina found it easier to throw in a duplicate of the Victory launch instead of manufacturing a custom 50ft Longboat for SOTS. The launch will probably fit better on SOTS than a 50ft longboat if you decide to mount it on deck. Its not really a big deal unless you are obsessed with authenticity like me !!!! Hope this helps Interesting reading Bruce,seems we are both after a little more historical accuracy.If you fit the grated deck above the upper gun deck,there is plenty of space for a 50ft longboat. Kind Regards Nigel
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 Hi Just thought I would add my penny worth to the debate, we all agree that no plans have survived of the original ship and that it was common practice to have longboats attached to ships at this time. My point is this the only surviving pictures are engravings ect and that a certain amount of artistic licence is involved here also you have the propaganda of the period must be taken into equation as miss information was as rife then as it is today. regards Andy Current builds:-C57,Zero, Lamborghini Countach, Caldercraft HMS Agamemnon,Robi,R2-D2, MFH Cobra .
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,827 Points: -13,348
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There are several illustrations of the Sovereign's boats after the Restoration. See Angus Konstam, Warships of the Anglo-Dutch Wars 1652-74 (Osprey 2011), p47: a Van de Velde drawing of 1675, where the long boat is being hoisted in (or out) by blocks from the fore and main yard arms. The block at the stern is very clear, even in the small scale reproduction. By this date fenders had been added, so that the boat wouldn't catch against the sides. (Incongruously, the ports are shown open!)
The same book has a reproduction of a painting by Jacob Knyff showing a royal visit to the Sovereign in 1673. The ship is dressed overall in red, and there appears to be a ship's boat in the waist, also dressed in red.
I would also recommend W E May, The Boats of Men-of-War. This includes a useful table of different boats, dated 1640 (p18) and a tracing showing different types of boat of the late 17th century.
Hope this is useful
CEC
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