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SandyM
#21 Posted : 30 April 2013 08:58:11

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Hi Nigel,
Bill is a real gem, I have been in contact with him and he sent me his copy of Millward's plan which I copied and returned. All information is welcome.
Bill is not colouring his model wishing to keep the natural beauty of the wood and carving all the gingerbread in boxwood and has been at it for over ten years.
I am attempting to copy the artworks of Payne and de Velde and as we don't yet know how close the kits gingerbread is we will have to wait and see. I will be making plugs in any material that will lend it's self ( wood, plastic, wax, bogroll,ect) and then casting in modelling metal before being electroplated with Kgold.
We do know from the Italian site that the hancing pieces Aeolus, Mars, Jupiter and Neptune are missing and I thought that the easiest way to make these is to use plastic nudes, remodel them into the pose, dress and adorn then cast.
Thanks for for the kind offer Nigel, CraftSuplies still do the nuts.
Och that is a bit heavy although the nice soft mellow hues are inticing
Sandy





Various balsa aircraft both rubber powered and RC
Billing Jyland
Billing Wasa
Billing Dutch Royal Barge (gold medal winner Germany 1975)
Scratch built HMS Victory using HMSO plans hull size 26"
Scratch built Yamato Hull size 8'8"
De Pardo HMS Bounty

Current build Sovereign of the Seas
SandyM
#22 Posted : 22 May 2013 18:45:00

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I decided to re-skin her with 2mm walnut planks as the thin skin just did not look right.
Anyway today picked up issue 38 with gallery parts there in. Having dry fitted to see how things sit I noticed that on the kit the gallery run level and stops at the top of the gun ports where as the art works they runs at the same angle as the prop deck and stops at the bottom of the gun ports.
I would interested in what you guys think are your models the same.
SandyM attached the following image(s):
starboard gallery as kit.JPG
starboard gallery as arworks.JPG





Various balsa aircraft both rubber powered and RC
Billing Jyland
Billing Wasa
Billing Dutch Royal Barge (gold medal winner Germany 1975)
Scratch built HMS Victory using HMSO plans hull size 26"
Scratch built Yamato Hull size 8'8"
De Pardo HMS Bounty

Current build Sovereign of the Seas
NMBROOK
#23 Posted : 22 May 2013 20:17:28

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Hi Sandy,singing on the same hymn sheet with this one.I think I may have sussed this one but need part 39 to be certain.In order for me to get this to look authentic,I think the poop deck hasn't enough slope and doesn't follow the shear,neither do the galleries.What is involved is raising the poop ten mm at the rear and 3mm at the front.Then the next deck 3mm at the rear to match the front of the poop.Rather than try an explain it I will do a drawing and post it.I altered the line of the wales because the main ones were cut through completely by gunports which is wrong in my opinion.I know the engraving shows this at the last port but I can't believe the builders would have done this,it compromises structural integrity too much.They also have no shear on them which looks wrong.
Will post sketch of my proposed alterations.
Kind regards Nigel
SandyM
#24 Posted : 22 May 2013 21:02:42

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Hi Nigel,
That was my thinking as well. I also think that the water line is too close to the ports and intend to drop it a bit. You will have probely noticed that ports are not quite in the right place according to the art works, I have tried to adjust and the missing ones as far as the ribs would allow.
On a different note while looking through the Italian site at the stern castle I have noticed that the aft windows and panels are the same hight and a single panel high below the lower gallery windows. In the Pett painting the lower gallery has taller windows with a small panel then a larger one below so it looks like more amendments for me.
Sandy





Various balsa aircraft both rubber powered and RC
Billing Jyland
Billing Wasa
Billing Dutch Royal Barge (gold medal winner Germany 1975)
Scratch built HMS Victory using HMSO plans hull size 26"
Scratch built Yamato Hull size 8'8"
De Pardo HMS Bounty

Current build Sovereign of the Seas
NMBROOK
#25 Posted : 22 May 2013 22:17:17

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Hi Sandy
Yes spotted the stern windows.My idea in simplyfied form is to raise the stern back panel 10mm leaving the front of the balconies at the same height.This matches the shear on my wales and will match the proposed poop.It should also allow the small arch gunport in the balcony to be fitted.I experimented with a high res image of the stern painting,printing out at various enlargements and unfortunately bears little resemblance to the shape of our stern.So I think compromises have to be made otherwise we might as well have started from scratch.Have you spotted that the foredeck needs raising at its rear?I believe the Septon's book is correct as regard to a grated deck over the midship gun deck.Without this the inboard carronades in the transverse bulkheads to repel boarding attempts useless.To this end the foredeck needs to follow the shear to enable the fitting of railings to support this deck (one aspect of the 'Culver' model that I believe is correct).If you look at the Italian instructions now the railings are fitted the faults in deck levels are very apparent.The railing height tapers and allows no provision for the central panel present on all research material.
Kind Regards Nigel
Gandale
#26 Posted : 22 May 2013 22:27:20

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Hi Sandy, love the mods you and Nigel are proposing, finding the topic very intersting and really look forward to seeing how it all turns out...BigGrin BigGrin .. Think these mods are way above my level of expertise so being my first build I will likely stick to the official build and the magazine... Will be following with interest in the hope of increasing my knowledge of these fabulous ships.... Best of luck with your build..... BigGrin BigGrin

Regards

Alan
NMBROOK
#27 Posted : 22 May 2013 22:59:08

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Hope this helps Sandy
Kind Regards Nigel
NMBROOK attached the following image(s):
photo (31).JPG
SandyM
#28 Posted : 22 May 2013 23:23:22

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Hi Alan and Nigel,
Yes I agree Nigel, the gratings in the waist would make mods to the foredeck nessary, the way we were instructed to cut back in this area made me wonder as there appeared no room of the hancing pieces at the forward end of the waist. As far as the grating are concerned, I think that I will mimic Culver's model rather than a full covering as per the art work as you won't be able to see much through a 1mm grating which equates to 3.5" , about the right size I think (looks like a 3mm or 10.5" grating used on the model).
I have managed to track down some HO scale nudes which I should be able to remodel into the hancing pieces I will let you know how it turns out.
The port side door I have copied the artwork about the same width as a gun port and 19mm high (5'6") also I have reduced the stern counter by 10mm this along with the alterations to the transom makes the counter about 6%. I hope this makes sense.
Yes Alan as this is you first build that is the best course to take but you can play with ideas out with the build this will help to stretch your skills and gain experience. You are doing a grand job so far, keep it up.
Sandy





Various balsa aircraft both rubber powered and RC
Billing Jyland
Billing Wasa
Billing Dutch Royal Barge (gold medal winner Germany 1975)
Scratch built HMS Victory using HMSO plans hull size 26"
Scratch built Yamato Hull size 8'8"
De Pardo HMS Bounty

Current build Sovereign of the Seas
SandyM
#29 Posted : 22 May 2013 23:30:02

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Just been looking at your drawing Nigel, looks like a twin of mine did you also raise up the counter brackets to start between the lower and middle gun decks.
Sandy





Various balsa aircraft both rubber powered and RC
Billing Jyland
Billing Wasa
Billing Dutch Royal Barge (gold medal winner Germany 1975)
Scratch built HMS Victory using HMSO plans hull size 26"
Scratch built Yamato Hull size 8'8"
De Pardo HMS Bounty

Current build Sovereign of the Seas
NMBROOK
#30 Posted : 22 May 2013 23:38:38

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Hi Sandy,I didn't raise the brackets I completely reshaped the rear to similar effect.This is getting scary how we are thinking so alike.I have already bought some caldercraft 1mm gratings(flipping nice product)because I don't want my sailors falling down the holesLOL LOL LOL .I agree the culver approach whilst not entirely accurate is better as regards visibility but also as far as rigging is concerned.
Kind Regards Nigel
SandyM
#31 Posted : 23 May 2013 00:07:01

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Hi Nigel,
You will probely have Anderson's " The Rigging of Ships in the days of the Spritsail Topmast, 1600-1720 " it is great and as a bonus the SOTS is mentioned a lot.
As far as enlargements of the artwork is concerned I can hole hartly recommend Busmann's " The Sovereign of the Seas" I was put on to this by Bill Short. It's in German but his descriptions more or less are the same as Sephton's but the pictures are of indevidual panels or areas and are bigger and clearer he also goes into explaining the meaning and sorce of carvings. It is also expensive.
Sandy





Various balsa aircraft both rubber powered and RC
Billing Jyland
Billing Wasa
Billing Dutch Royal Barge (gold medal winner Germany 1975)
Scratch built HMS Victory using HMSO plans hull size 26"
Scratch built Yamato Hull size 8'8"
De Pardo HMS Bounty

Current build Sovereign of the Seas
NMBROOK
#32 Posted : 23 May 2013 01:21:09

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Hi Sandy
Yes I have Anderson's book.I have tried to find Busmann's book but no luck so far.When I started the project Amazon had it,but I bought Septons instead.Now I want it,they don't list it,typical.I will carry on searching.
Kind Regards Nigel
NMBROOK
#33 Posted : 23 May 2013 01:47:08

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Hi Sandy
My luck is in,just found a secondhand copy of Busmanns book on Amazon in the USA.You are right,it certainly wasn't cheap,even secondhand.Just got to wait for it to arrive now.
Kind regards Nigel
SandyM
#34 Posted : 23 May 2013 09:05:45

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Hi Nigel,
When I bought mine I could only find it on Amazon in Germany.
In the back there are three large pull outs of the art works,
two of the port side by De Velde and Payne
one of the starboard side by Pett
The differences between them is well discussed by both Sephton and Busmann.
I took copies of these for the wall of my work room for quick reference points and have proved invaluable.
Sandy





Various balsa aircraft both rubber powered and RC
Billing Jyland
Billing Wasa
Billing Dutch Royal Barge (gold medal winner Germany 1975)
Scratch built HMS Victory using HMSO plans hull size 26"
Scratch built Yamato Hull size 8'8"
De Pardo HMS Bounty

Current build Sovereign of the Seas
SandyM
#35 Posted : 23 May 2013 09:20:27

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Here is a grating for the lower deck it sill has to have the lifting rings fitted. To cut down on cost I used half grating kit and half base wood supplied cut into thin strips
SandyM attached the following image(s):
IMGP1055.JPG





Various balsa aircraft both rubber powered and RC
Billing Jyland
Billing Wasa
Billing Dutch Royal Barge (gold medal winner Germany 1975)
Scratch built HMS Victory using HMSO plans hull size 26"
Scratch built Yamato Hull size 8'8"
De Pardo HMS Bounty

Current build Sovereign of the Seas
KobusBeukes
#36 Posted : 23 May 2013 17:44:47

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Hi Sandy,

These grating looks stunning, well done.

Regards
Kobus

Current Build
HMS Sovereign of the Seas - First Build
NMBROOK
#37 Posted : 23 May 2013 18:15:28

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Hi Sandy
Very nice work.Are they the caldercraft 1mm gratings?I was thinking of doing the same because its easier to make up a longer section as they only come 33mm square.Not only that the cost is certainly a factor when it comes to the anti-boarding decks.Also the fact that its historically correct.
I am looking forward to the book arriving,had an email to say I should receive it around 11 june. I think it would be a good idea for me to hold off with the stern until it arrives.
Kind Regards Nigel
SandyM
#38 Posted : 24 May 2013 00:27:57

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Thanks guys.
Yes Nigel they are Caldercraft hence the four part grating I also reckoned that a single grating would be to big to manhandle below decks. I had thought of splitting it across ship as modern vessels but then I remembered seeing this arrangement before where the support beams were mortised into the frame with a wedge tenon so they can be removed for access to the hold. I am not sure about the hatch cover if it was hinged or dropped in place during times of action also if the gratings had rope or iron lifting rings. I have made 2mm rings from black wire and mounted them onto the smallest fish hook that I could find. They look ok.
How's your German ! The book is well worth it.
Sandy





Various balsa aircraft both rubber powered and RC
Billing Jyland
Billing Wasa
Billing Dutch Royal Barge (gold medal winner Germany 1975)
Scratch built HMS Victory using HMSO plans hull size 26"
Scratch built Yamato Hull size 8'8"
De Pardo HMS Bounty

Current build Sovereign of the Seas
NMBROOK
#39 Posted : 24 May 2013 00:38:19

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My german LOL LOL LOL .Non existent Sandy.They do say a picture is worth a thousand words though.LOL
Kind regards Nigel
SandyM
#40 Posted : 20 June 2013 11:10:29

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Still lots of work to be done here but its a break from planking.
SandyM attached the following image(s):
IMGP1062.JPG
IMGP1065.JPG
IMGP1067.JPG





Various balsa aircraft both rubber powered and RC
Billing Jyland
Billing Wasa
Billing Dutch Royal Barge (gold medal winner Germany 1975)
Scratch built HMS Victory using HMSO plans hull size 26"
Scratch built Yamato Hull size 8'8"
De Pardo HMS Bounty

Current build Sovereign of the Seas
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