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 Rank: Super-Elite        Groups: Registered
Joined: 04/04/2010 Posts: 3,955 Points: 11,809 Location: uk
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have we any mathematicians on board? what doe's 1/84th. mean?I have tried to calculate numerous equations and can't figure it out,what parameters how they using?is it 1" - 84"? a similar discussion was had in an other string. calculations on a hull plank came up with approx. 3" for a 30' length.that doe's not compute,that would make victory 21" long. don't think so,i've worked it out at 5mm.- 1'0" so where's the 1/84th. come in? at my scale (5mm.-1'0") a plank needs to be 150mm. which comes out at 6" much better scale.the old admiralty plans were drawn at 1/4" to the foot,which works out at 1/75th,? so how is it calculated.????? Current builds: SotS, USS Consitution, San Felipe, D51 loco, HMS Surprise, RB7, Arab Dhow, Jotika HMS Victory Completed builds: HMS Pickel, Thermopylae, Mississipi river boat, Mary Rose, Cutty Sark, San Francisco II, HMS Victory x5, Titanic Lifeboat, Panart HMS Victory Launch, Hachette Titanic, Virginia Schooner, Endeavour Longboat. http://www.model-space.com/gb/
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 Rank: Vice-Master  Groups: Registered
Joined: 13/10/2011 Posts: 851 Points: 2,628 Location: Leeds, Yorkshire
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Hi Karl
1/84 scale means that everything on the model is 84 times smaller than on the real thing.
Also remember that 1 inch is 2.54 cm or 254 mm
Therefore: 10ft on the real ship becomes 10 x 254 = 2540 mm.
To scale that down for the model divide by 84 and you get 30.24 mm
So roughly speaking 10ft on victory is approximately 3cm on the model.
When I check out my model launch 34ft is 10.2 cm (3 x 34 /10). I get that dimension as the internal length of the launch.
Which raises the question of what a 34' launch actually means? I was assuming that it was the overall length for stowage on the ship but it looks like it could be the longest internal length for stowage in the launch. mmm this needs more research!
Hope the above helps with calculations
Mike T
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 Rank: Vice-Master      Groups: Registered
Joined: 23/03/2010 Posts: 507 Points: 1,571
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The launch scales in at 1/90, as to my dismay, I scaled the oar slots using McKay`s book, he has a 1/192 scale drawing of the launch so X multiplied by 192 divided by 84 = my oar slots. NOT. My launch is 114 mm long, this scales in at about 31ft 4 ins (1/90 ish), pity I didn't check before I started up the chain saw.
So like stedders I too have made a horrendous error of the greatest magnitude on the oar slots, lol stedders
But come to think of it when the carronade truck and wheels scaled in at 1/48 I should of checked first, silly me, but experience is growing
If your wondering why I bothered to scale the oar slots its because they are not all evenly placed and neither are the thwarts, and I cant find anything anywhere about a centre mast so my build isn't having one, just my choice.
Whilst I don`t want to get into anything silly mike I must point out your error in scaling. When you say (Therefore: 10ft on the real ship becomes 10 x 254 = 2540 mm.) This is wrong the equation should read 10 x 12 x 25.4, its 25.4mm to the inch not the foot, No disrespect intended mike
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 Rank: Vice-Master  Groups: Registered
Joined: 13/10/2011 Posts: 851 Points: 2,628 Location: Leeds, Yorkshire
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You're quite right, who ever heard of 12" in a foot how ridiculous! Mike T
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 Rank: Pro    Groups: Registered
Joined: 02/04/2010 Posts: 491 Points: 1,460 Location: Poole
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Whilst my brain tends to recoil at the very thought of complex equations and mathematical formulae, I just take it that 1/84 equates to 1 foot of model size to every 84 'real' feet in length. Thus a figure representing an adult male (let's just ignore the fact that the average male of the period rarely exceeded 5' 'something' and assume that everyone was 6' tall) should come out at... *engages little-used brain cells, takes deep breath* ...around 20mm tall. 84 divided by 6 = 14 (which would relate to 14 miniature crewmen lying in a row, head to toe to make one foot of 'real' measurement. 303mm equals 12" Thus
303mm divided by 14 equals 21.6mm (being the height of a 6ft male turned into 1/84th scale) - which, ladies and gents sounds about right and should be (within minor deviations) the hieght of the supplied mini's).*goes for a lie-down and a cold compress*  Quote:
So like stedders I too have made a horrendous error of the greatest magnitude on the oar slots, lol stedders
Does my 'fastest launch in the fleet' have competition (I could always file another set of oar slots you know... ) Schnellboots on back burner
Tools.
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 Rank: Amateur Level 1  Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/05/2010 Posts: 38 Points: 114 Location: cornwall
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Ok, i just but my professor head on and came up with this equation 10x12x2.54=304.8cm therfore 304.8cm =10 feet To scale this down divide 304.8 by 84 to give 3.628 rounded up to 3.63cm=10feet Keeping up so far 3.63 divided by 10 would give 1 foot 0.363cm=1 foot the launch being 34' would read .363x34=12.342cm Same equation in 1/90 scale 304.8/90=3.39cm-10' 3.39/10=.339-1' .339x34=11.52cm Measured my launch to be 11.42cm external So after all that i agree with Willz that the launch scales in at 1/90 (Puts normal head back on and goes for a lay down)
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 Rank: Vice-Master      Groups: Registered
Joined: 23/03/2010 Posts: 507 Points: 1,571
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go to the top of the class
you could always ditch the 10ft and replace it with 34ft i.e 34 x 12 x 25.4 / 84 = 125.7mm and our launch is only 114 so replace the 84 for 90 i.e 34 x 12 x 25.4 / 90 = 115.1
so replace the 90 for 90.9 and we have 114.006 i.e 34 x 12 x 25.4 / 90.9 = 114.006
so our launch is 1/90.9 scale to within 2 decimal points, lol
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 Rank: Amateur Level 1  Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/05/2010 Posts: 38 Points: 114 Location: cornwall
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Now go compare all that with the actual figures from official victory web site and see wot ya come up with. facts and figures
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 Rank: Pro  Groups: Registered
Joined: 20/03/2010 Posts: 226 Points: 647 Location: Merseyside
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kas wrote:Now go compare all that with the actual figures from official victory web site and see wot ya come up with. facts and figures I think I'll pass on that if you don't mind. Dave H
Current builds :- Hachette 1/16 Tiger Tank H.M.S Victory, Santisima Trinidad (Section), 1/8 scale Aston Martin DB5, 1/8 scale McLaren, YNWA
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 Rank: Pro    Groups: Registered
Joined: 20/03/2010 Posts: 462 Points: 1,299 Location: Tortuga !
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 Good Morning Scale Modellers. I will just have to get my two penerth in! A Question of scale is a topic that has been going on for eons! Lets use HO/OO !! H0 is derived from the fact that its 1:87 (1:87.086!) scale is approximately half that of 0 (zero) scale thats 3.5mm to the foot, OO is derived from the fact that its 1:76 (1:76.2) scale, again is approximately half that of 0 (zero) scale but comes in at 4mm to the foot. Take two model trains put them on the track (by the way they run on the same track)and to the complete amateur they would not be able to tell the difference! The same goes with this build, Do you really think anybody looking at your great build of the Victory will notice that the 34ft barge is a couple of mm out!! I dont think so,  I think they will be more amazed at the thought of how did you put all that rigging up, wow look at the boats, what the copper plating was put on one piece at a time!!!! Come on Guys get real and just enjoy the build !!! Happy Building, Russ On the workbench: My Victory Build Diary - Victory Cross Section Build Diary - Black Pearl Build DiaryUnder the Bench: Millenium Falcon, Black Pearl x 2, Coral Victory Cross Section, De Lorean
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 Rank: Pro  Groups: Registered
Joined: 27/03/2010 Posts: 188 Points: 614 Location: Llandudno
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 searches desperately for some way of joining in the forum............ gives up & goes back to playing free cell
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 Rank: Super-Elite        Groups: Registered
Joined: 04/04/2010 Posts: 3,955 Points: 11,809 Location: uk
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I expected a better turn out then this, by the way this is a wind-up.wanted a bit of a disscussion and a bit of in fighting, very tame ,disapointed slinks of to watch the footie, Current builds: SotS, USS Consitution, San Felipe, D51 loco, HMS Surprise, RB7, Arab Dhow, Jotika HMS Victory Completed builds: HMS Pickel, Thermopylae, Mississipi river boat, Mary Rose, Cutty Sark, San Francisco II, HMS Victory x5, Titanic Lifeboat, Panart HMS Victory Launch, Hachette Titanic, Virginia Schooner, Endeavour Longboat. http://www.model-space.com/gb/
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 Rank: Pro  Groups: Registered
Joined: 21/03/2010 Posts: 170 Points: 549 Location: Lincolnshire
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meh
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 Rank: Pro  Groups: Registered
Joined: 28/03/2010 Posts: 152 Points: 513 Location: Liverpool,England
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karl1113 wrote:I expected a better turn out then this, by the way this is a wind-up.wanted a bit of a disscussion and a bit of in fighting, very tame ,disapointed slinks of to watch the footie, Nice one Karl Jimmy L.
current builds : Lancaster 1/32 (Hachette) Revell USS Kearsarge Titanic Lifeboat
I started off with nothing and I've still got most of it left.
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 Rank: Pro    Groups: Registered
Joined: 20/03/2010 Posts: 462 Points: 1,299 Location: Tortuga !
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karl1113 wrote:I expected a better turn out then this, by the way this is a wind-up.wanted a bit of a disscussion and a bit of in fighting, very tame ,disapointed slinks of to watch the footie, So I RACKED MY BRAIN for nothing! You're getting the pain killers bill!!! Happy Building, Russ On the workbench: My Victory Build Diary - Victory Cross Section Build Diary - Black Pearl Build DiaryUnder the Bench: Millenium Falcon, Black Pearl x 2, Coral Victory Cross Section, De Lorean
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 Rank: Amateur Level 1  Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/05/2010 Posts: 38 Points: 114 Location: cornwall
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And i'm disappointed that no-one took up my challenge
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 Rank: Pro  Groups: Registered
Joined: 27/03/2010 Posts: 188 Points: 614 Location: Llandudno
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Hi guys. Regarding scale. Victory's anchor cable is 24" in circumference (from Anatomy of the Ship). What would that be in mm? I whant to make sure I get the correct twine(As near as dam it)from Cornwall model boats. Regards Bob
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 Rank: Vice-Master      Groups: Registered
Joined: 23/03/2010 Posts: 507 Points: 1,571
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That works out at 2.3 mm (24x25.4/84)/(22/7) = 2.309 thats the diameter 24x25.4/84 = 7.25 thats the circumference
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 Rank: Pro  Groups: Registered
Joined: 27/03/2010 Posts: 188 Points: 614 Location: Llandudno
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Nice one wills. Thanks for that
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