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What Material do we get? Options
Lonestar Spirit
#1 Posted : 11 November 2010 16:09:20

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Hi, I think this question suit's Tomick, more than anyone, due to his build being further along than ours.

You mention in your official build that we get the gun port linings, in issue 34/35, can I ask what material were going to be getting for this?

Best wishes
David
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daffy09
#2 Posted : 11 November 2010 23:10:57

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Tomick probably is the one to answer this, but knowing our luck it'll be the same old basswood.
Daffy09
Lonestar Spirit
#3 Posted : 12 November 2010 10:15:17

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I Have a funny feeling, the whole hull is Basswood? due to a delay in getting any answers? I hope I'm wrong though!
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admin
#4 Posted : 12 November 2010 15:20:08
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Hi there

Yes, the material is basswood. For those who want a natural hardwood finish, the basswood linings can be stained a contrast colour. This has to be done after sanding the hull (as is also the case with paint). Whether paint or stain is used, we will be recommending products that will not bleed into the surrounding planking - although care has to be taken applying them, and the magazine will offer tips on getting the best results. We have run a survey which has indicated that over 75% of readers intend to paint their hull. In this case, of course, the material used for the linings will not be visible.

Thanks
Admin
Lonestar Spirit
#5 Posted : 12 November 2010 16:36:02

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Thanks for replying Admin, much appreciate it!

However! is there a reason you have opted for this method? instead of using the recommended natural timber?

Will the decking timber also be Basswood?
What timber will be used for the fixtures and fittings for the upper decks?

For the attention of all, I'm not being difficult, just concerned that this is not going to be the model I once thought I had subscribed to, I need to know these things, before I commit myself further.

Best wishes
David
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Dontshootme
#6 Posted : 12 November 2010 17:04:45

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Don't worry about it David...i'm also concerned & keep wrestling in my mind on whether to cut my losses & get another kit somewhere or just persevere with it.Part of me screams about the fact that we are now 1/4 of the way through & think of the money you would waste.the other part says look at all the issues we have had what else is to come?It's a real puzzler.Crying
Rob Nolli Illigitimi Carborundum!!!
Current Builds:HMS Victory,SV Thermopylae
thomasmoult
#7 Posted : 12 November 2010 18:35:18

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Dontshootme wrote:
Don't worry about it David...i'm also concerned & keep wrestling in my mind on whether to cut my losses & get another kit somewhere or just persevere with it.Part of me screams about the fact that we are now 1/4 of the way through & think of the money you would waste.the other part says look at all the issues we have had what else is to come?It's a real puzzler.Crying


For me, the fun of the build is to scratch build and replace parts that can be made to look better. For those going for a natural finish, walnut or mahogany as opposed to stained basswood will look much better in my opinion.

Tom
Mac
#8 Posted : 12 November 2010 18:57:49

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Dontshootme wrote:
Don't worry about it David...i'm also concerned & keep wrestling in my mind on whether to cut my losses & get another kit somewhere or just persevere with it.Part of me screams about the fact that we are now 1/4 of the way through & think of the money you would waste.the other part says look at all the issues we have had what else is to come?It's a real puzzler.Crying



I must admit guys I'm having the same thoughts. Infact I'm giving it so much thought ie should I cut my losses or hang in there ? that yet another month has passed by again.

The overall price of this build is alot of money. £700 +

Granted its a partwork build so we dont have to pay it all out at one, granted the magazines, this forum, Mr T, and the help of other experianced builders on this forum are priceless.

But £700+ would get you an excellent quality complete ship kit, so why do we have to accept constantly changing quality of parts for this build? I'm concerned with ending up with a substandard model at this rate. This may be unfounded but these changes worry me. Crying
Pam's shipyard is closed for now no more room!




andylangtree
#9 Posted : 12 November 2010 19:58:22

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I have been thinking the same, do i cut my losses and buy a decent kit. This started out as a museum quality kit or so Deag claimed. It seems to me they are cutting costs as much as possible but charging the customer the same amount of money. Every time i log onto the forum something else has been changed, i am sure i remember a post on this forum that stated we would be supplied with a darker wood for the bottom of the hull, we were supposed to get copper for the hull now it seems we will get copper paint, replacement of first 2 cannons as gone quiet. I know in there small print they will state that they can change things but changing this amount and to this extent surely is out of line. We are going to end up with a very expensive piece of basswood and yes i know i could replace parts myself but why should i, i signed up for a so called museum quality model.
Maldbuild
#10 Posted : 12 November 2010 21:24:56

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I have read with interest the comments re the build quality . I came to the conclusion months ago that I would have to spend extra cash to make this model of some Quality . I personally think I will have to invest a further £50 to improve on the basswood this will be done by adding a second layer of Planking, I have also invested a further £60 in Brass gun Barrels .

I think that from the start , Because Deagostini say you have a choice of PAINT or NATURAL finish that you should be given the materials to match your chosen finish . It has turned out that if you want a natural Stained finish ,Dont use paint .
For a Museum quality finish invest more cash . Sad but a true fact .

Mald Huh Huh Huh


Son of Bulwark
#11 Posted : 12 November 2010 21:29:27

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Hi shipmates! Cool

Yes you could stop now save up to buy a decent kit, but have you looked at the instructions on these kits if you are a beginner then forget it! you have to know what your doing first as they expect you to be an expert in model ship building. With this build the instruction are clear, even the mistakes have been found and posted on the forum.

All kits are a compromise of cost 'v' quality, this is only the first quarter of the build, your hull isn't finished and in issue 15 page 12 it states that "1. Wooden 'copper' finish If you choose to leave your model in natural wood, you may prefer not to simulate the copper at all. An alternative is to use a walnut wood stain to darken the planking on the lower part of the hull to give the impression that the area was covered in copper."

andylangtree wrote:
i am sure i remember a post on this forum that stated we would be supplied with a darker wood for the bottom of the hull

Your right their was a post by Tomick about the lower hull being covered in a veneer of hardwood, Admin corrected this single planking which could by stained and soon after Tomick posted the same information.

If you what to leave then go on, just remember we haven't started the upper decks fitting, rigging or any of the finishing touches yet!. A full part list would have helped a lot of people to decide if it was what they expected, but as this is the first time this part work was offered not all the parts were set so some changes have happened. The cannon design is a good example there was a problem and it is now sorted just waiting to get the cannons replaced as you all are.

Beginners can follow the easy instructions of this part work to make a great ship and experts can take it to a higher level far above most peoples skills, we all spend money to make a good looking ship and some spend more.
yorkieboy1
#12 Posted : 12 November 2010 22:00:44

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Deag made the model sound so good at the launch and so it should after paying out over £ 700 at completion this is the first part works model I have built and I must admit that with the help of you guys and Mr T and not forgetting the lego crew I have learnt a hell of a lot but i will never ever get another one .In my book and no doubt a few other members who are pensioners like myself we have been let down with the cutting cost measures of deag but I cannot afford to stop now and lose the money I have already spent.Confused Confused Confused
Mac
#13 Posted : 12 November 2010 22:06:33

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You make very valid points Son of Bulwark BigGrin More points to consider!Confused
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ArtfulBodger
#14 Posted : 12 November 2010 22:18:01

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In the next issue you are given the option of an alternative build. A 4 x 2' solid block of basewood, together with an axe and you just carve it out of that. You buy all the fitments as extras and then cover it in your choice of vaneer; again extra. If you want it of museum quality then it comes as an extra.
Wait a minute where have I heard that before?
ArtfulBodger


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piot007
#15 Posted : 12 November 2010 22:45:56

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Well you all make a good point. Deja vu coming on here. Flapper
Is it a full moon again? BigGrin
Its aimed at beginners. Who know no different in terms of quality.
Wood is wood an all that.

i dont know what weapons will be used in ww3 but ww4 will be sticks and stones.
budgie
#16 Posted : 13 November 2010 02:08:01

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BigGrin Hi Guys & Gals sorry to hear yet again the same issues of value for money is troubling subscribers
As i have said before its a £700 subscription not the £700 kit that it keeps getting compared to
I personaly would be **** scared of taking a knife/saw/glue etc anywhere near such an expensive lump of various shaped bits & bobs especially since i have never built a period ship before
Sticking with your subscription i believe will enable you in the future to be confident enough to purchase that £700 dream kit & interpret the plans/instructions etc
(learning to walk before you start running)
I suppose this makes sense to people who are just starting this hobby

Making errors (which should be expected)on this build would be much more acceptable to your mind than on a more expensive one as you can always turn to the forum for advise

I find the forum is a great source & inspiration BUT it can also sow the seeds of doubt
hands up who would have built their canons back to front & would be happy with the result i wouldn't have known any better (greatful for those who pointed this out)

hands up who knows the difference between basswood & sapel i don't

hands up who starts to worry when someone doesn't recieve their parts on time (am i going to get mine) yes i worry

anyhoos enough of me rambling i only hope that yous keep going so i can keep looking at the pictures of your builds for future reference








Lonestar Spirit
#17 Posted : 13 November 2010 13:42:20

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I want to agree with you, as I have enjoyed the build so far, but after looking at nearly all the other manufactured builds of HMS Victory on the market, and finding that ours is the only one with a full basswood hull, with no clear explanation as to why DeAgostini have adopted this method, I started getting worried, that the upper decks fittings and fixtures will also be built from Basswood? we will end up with one of the most cheapest looking builds, with the highest price tag! but if they are only going to use Basswood on the hull, due to it's ease of use, taking the new builder in mind, then I have no issue, but I need to know if they will be using natural coloured timber for everything else?

Just a note, stained wood bleaches and fades quicker than natural timber, with age!

Son of Bulwark wrote:


Yes you could stop now save up to buy a decent kit, but have you looked at the instructions on these kits if you are a beginner then forget it! you have to know what your doing first as they expect you to be an expert in model ship building. With this build the instruction are clear, even the mistakes have been found and posted on the forum.


When I first started building model ships from wood, I was lost, but there are many books on the market that can guide you through each of the stages of the build, with confidence, Keith Julier does a few which in my oppinion are well worth the money, I still refer to then even now, when building.


Son of Bulwark wrote:


All kits are a compromise of cost 'v' quality, this is only the first quarter of the build, your hull isn't finished and in issue 15 page 12 it states that "1. Wooden 'copper' finish If you choose to leave your model in natural wood, you may prefer not to simulate the copper at all. An alternative is to use a walnut wood stain to darken the planking on the lower part of the hull to give the impression that the area was covered in copper."


Cost v Quality? OK consider that one of the best kits on the market is the Caldercraft version of HMS Victory, it's retail price is around £698.00 this is a fantastic build, where quality has not been compromised, yet our kit costs around £700? and we still haven't been told what were going to get, and with all the changes, this gets me concerned, but like I said before, if they can guarantee, that were going to get natural timber for the decking, fittings and fixtures, then I wont have a problem.

Son of Bulwark wrote:


If you what to leave then go on, just remember we haven't started the upper decks fitting, rigging or any of the finishing touches yet!. A full part list would have helped a lot of people to decide if it was what they expected, but as this is the first time this part work was offered not all the parts were set so some changes have happened. The cannon design is a good example there was a problem and it is now sorted just waiting to get the cannons replaced as you all are.


Why should we leave just yet, we have a right to ask questions of the build! seeing as we have committed so much money to this build, but I for one would like to know why this method has been adopted, and what guarantees were going to get that the whole ship isn't going to be made of Basswood, it didnt state on the video that you would have to use stain to produce the effect of walnut etc, but it did state that this would be of a museum quality? as for the cannons, if they had stuck with the one's that Artesania Latina had used, then there would not have been an issue, but your right, they did notice a problem, AFTER it was pointed out by us the members, and the cannons were changed, although we still haven't had replacements for the two that are now different from the rest.

Son of Bulwark wrote:


Beginners can follow the easy instructions of this part work to make a great ship and experts can take it to a higher level far above most peoples skills, we all spend money to make a good looking ship and some spend more.


If DeAgostini, had stated in the first magazine and DVD that you would be getting a full Basswood hull, and that you would have to stain it yourself to produce the desired effect of natural coloured timber, how many people would have signed up to this build?

I didnt want to turn this thread into a debate on loyalty to DeAgostini, or an argument, all I want to know is, what material are we going to be getting for the upper decking/fixtures and fittings, so that I can make a decission whether to stay with the build or cancel and buy a kit! but if DeAgostini can guarantee us that all timber/fittings and fixtures are of a natural nature, and dont require staining to achieve this effect, then I for one will be relieved and satisfied to stay with this build throughout its term!

Best wishes
David
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RussG
#18 Posted : 13 November 2010 14:30:54

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I Think we are getting a bit obsessed with the Basswood issue!

Basswood is an American term. Here in the UK we know it as Lime, Yep Lime wood from the Tilia tree, or Lime Tree in the UK.

Basswood has some advantages. For instance:

•Basswood has significant natural strength. This makes it easier to work with.
•Basswood bends easily.
•Basswood looks nice
•Basswood is relatively consistent from tree to tree in density.

However, Basswood does have some disadvantages. These include:

•Basswood is more expensive than other woods,
•Basswood is not always readily available.

So at the end of the day apart from deAgo picking a wood which is easy (ie great for beginners) to use, our kit is made from wood from a Lime Tree!!!! BigGrin

Forgot to mention that it is quite reselient to humidity!! great in our central heated houses!
Happy Building, Russ

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wallace
#19 Posted : 13 November 2010 14:44:52

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I think deag have been able to move the goal posts so easily because they relied on the fact that we would not cancel at such a late stage. I too was under the impression that the lower hull was in a different wood, I would have liked to leave mine natural but as im new to this model lark, my planking leaves a lot to be desired so i will need to paint mine.
darrend
#20 Posted : 13 November 2010 17:11:46

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once again weve been duped by deag and left with a far from " museum quality" model.
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