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 Rank: Beginner Level 1 Groups: Registered
Joined: 07/10/2012 Posts: 9 Points: 17 Location: UK
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Hi guys could you advise me? is a keel clamp the same as a keel jig? Many thanks Dave 
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 Rank: Super-Elite        Groups: Registered
Joined: 04/04/2010 Posts: 3,955 Points: 11,809 Location: uk
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NO is the answer,a clamp does what it says on the tin it clamps the keel,a keel jig is for keeping keel and ribs straight and true.while you carry on with the build.as you are doing the sots,just follow instruction in mag for the jig. Current builds: SotS, USS Consitution, San Felipe, D51 loco, HMS Surprise, RB7, Arab Dhow, Jotika HMS Victory Completed builds: HMS Pickel, Thermopylae, Mississipi river boat, Mary Rose, Cutty Sark, San Francisco II, HMS Victory x5, Titanic Lifeboat, Panart HMS Victory Launch, Hachette Titanic, Virginia Schooner, Endeavour Longboat. http://www.model-space.com/gb/
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Rank: Beginner Level 1 Groups: Registered
Joined: 07/10/2012 Posts: 9 Points: 17 Location: UK
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many thanks
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 Rank: Semi-Pro Level 2  Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/09/2012 Posts: 82 Points: 232 Location: Peterborough, Cambs
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Please make sure you follow the jig build shown in issue 3. The one shown in issue 2 is for models which can be clamped on the keel an can not be used for Sovereign builds... Andy Current Builds: - HMS Sovereign of the Seas Planning on Building: - Scratch built HMS Victory full detail interior (I know what's inside even if you can't see it ) Completed Builds: -
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 Rank: Amateur level 2 Groups: Registered
Joined: 20/09/2012 Posts: 43 Points: 118 Location: Wakefield
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This is the biggest problem i have found so far...continuity..eg:the keel jig is in issue3 but the last piece of keel(needed for a template)is issue 7,the mags also seem to assume we all have experience and "in my opinion" overlook the basics,techniques etc..without this forum i think this build would of felt too daunting for me. Even the people that start with...i know this is a stupid question but....you are not alone,someone needed to ask! I understand a jig,but what is the difference? Is a keel clamp the vice/bench clamp option that clamps only as much as the length of its jaws,where as the jig holds the full length/shape of the keel? Tell me the truth,I shall not offend nor be offended
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Rank: Semi-Pro Level 2 Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/09/2012 Posts: 82 Points: 232 Location: Peterborough, Cambs
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The keel clamp holds part of the keel by physically clamping onto it as the name implies. A jig does the same job of holding the keel in alignment but without clamping any part if the keel allowing the fitting of full depth keel ribs. Andy Current Builds: - HMS Sovereign of the Seas Planning on Building: - Scratch built HMS Victory full detail interior (I know what's inside even if you can't see it ) Completed Builds: -
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Rank: Amateur level 2 Groups: Registered
Joined: 20/09/2012 Posts: 43 Points: 118 Location: Wakefield
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ah ok Andy,so if you used a clamp it would have to be within the size of the rib spacings and you couldn't align the keel joints with it.. Jigs...1 Clamps.0 Rich Tell me the truth,I shall not offend nor be offended
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 Rank: Vice-Master  Groups: Registered
Joined: 09/02/2012 Posts: 569 Points: 1,675 Location: Scotland
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My interpretation.First picture is a keel clamp, 2 nd picture is a keel jig. 
MoMo
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Rank: Semi-Pro Level 2 Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/09/2012 Posts: 82 Points: 232 Location: Peterborough, Cambs
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From your images, the keel clamper in image 1 would do the job ok if the keel was already built and held in alignment by hull planking. Keel clamps generally come as two long pieces of material (plastic or aluminium normally) which then bolt together over the lower portion of the keel for most or all of it's length. This would not be suitable as you would be unable to fit the ribs fully. The jig in image 2 is spot on and what is recommended for the Sovereign as the keel ribs extend to the bottom of the keel and the brackets allow this while keeping the keel in alignment. Andy Current Builds: - HMS Sovereign of the Seas Planning on Building: - Scratch built HMS Victory full detail interior (I know what's inside even if you can't see it ) Completed Builds: -
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Rank: Semi-Pro Level 1 Groups: Registered
Joined: 06/09/2012 Posts: 56 Points: 144 Location: East Lothian
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I didnt get chance yesterday but I am going to do picture number 2. Very easy to do and takes 10 minutes.
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Rank: Semi-Pro Level 2 Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/09/2012 Posts: 82 Points: 232 Location: Peterborough, Cambs
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It is the best way to align the sovereign initially for this build. Just ensure the base board you use is not warped or twisted otherwise it could affect you build... Andy Current Builds: - HMS Sovereign of the Seas Planning on Building: - Scratch built HMS Victory full detail interior (I know what's inside even if you can't see it ) Completed Builds: -
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Rank: Amateur level 2 Groups: Registered
Joined: 20/09/2012 Posts: 43 Points: 118 Location: Wakefield
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Hi guys,i wonder if someone can help me. As i look down the keel head on,from the highest point to around 50-70mm down pulls off to the left about 3mm is this going to be a problem or should i just remember this for later on and pin it straight when i deck or plank it? Kind regards Rich Tell me the truth,I shall not offend nor be offended
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Rank: Super-Elite Groups: Registered
Joined: 04/04/2010 Posts: 3,955 Points: 11,809 Location: uk
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from the gist of your question,I take it your not using a jig???then I'm afraid your gonna have trouble,my advice is to remove all ribs,and then damp down the keel and use weights on top of a flat surface and press it for a few days.and try again,but without a jig your gonna find it difficult to keep it straight. Current builds: SotS, USS Consitution, San Felipe, D51 loco, HMS Surprise, RB7, Arab Dhow, Jotika HMS Victory Completed builds: HMS Pickel, Thermopylae, Mississipi river boat, Mary Rose, Cutty Sark, San Francisco II, HMS Victory x5, Titanic Lifeboat, Panart HMS Victory Launch, Hachette Titanic, Virginia Schooner, Endeavour Longboat. http://www.model-space.com/gb/
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Rank: Amateur level 2 Groups: Registered
Joined: 20/09/2012 Posts: 43 Points: 118 Location: Wakefield
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Thanks for the response Karl but i see my explanation doesn't make it clear,i have seen a post somewhere on posting pics but i couldn't find it again With my lack of experience i wouldn't dream of trying this without a jig and only the keel is glued,on dry fitting the ribs i found the little twist on the keel and my first 2 decks are slightly higher than the rest so stopped work. the keel runs true all the way except for the slight twist at the tip of the bow,the first jig bracket is between ribs 6&7 the keel is still straight as it comes off the bracket,it just leans off from slot 2 for the bulkhead first it was maybe 10mm out but i've had it clamped in line with jig for a couple of days and now its just 3mm out I hope all that makes sense  I'm hesitant on every step i do,i'm worried i'm gonna miss some obvious beginners mistakes  Tell me the truth,I shall not offend nor be offended
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Rank: Semi-Pro Level 2 Groups: Registered
Joined: 02/09/2012 Posts: 81 Points: 252 Location: Kingston upon Hull
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Hector wrote:Thanks for the response Karl but i see my explanation doesn't make it clear,i have seen a post somewhere on posting pics but i couldn't find it again With my lack of experience i wouldn't dream of trying this without a jig and only the keel is glued,on dry fitting the ribs i found the little twist on the keel and my first 2 decks are slightly higher than the rest so stopped work. the keel runs true all the way except for the slight twist at the tip of the bow,the first jig bracket is between ribs 6&7 the keel is still straight as it comes off the bracket,it just leans off from slot 2 for the bulkhead first it was maybe 10mm out but i've had it clamped in line with jig for a couple of days and now its just 3mm out I hope all that makes sense I'm hesitant on every step i do,i'm worried i'm gonna miss some obvious beginners mistakes Here you go Hector link to how to post a pic. http://forum.model-space...t.aspx?g=posts&t=59
Cheers Chris Builds in progress: DeAgostini HMS VictoryDeAgostini McLaren MP4-23 " If it looks right then it is right "
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Rank: Super-Elite Groups: Registered
Joined: 04/04/2010 Posts: 3,955 Points: 11,809 Location: uk
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hi hector,the twist at the bow can be sorted,you will need a couple more brackets right at the front of the bow,if your brackets don't reach the keel,extend the upright with something like a couple of files,which means widening the gap of the brackets,then clamp the bow and adjust till there's no twist, persevere at this stage and get it right,the ribs that are too high,file the bottom of the rib slot so that they are the same as the rest,the last lot of ribs number 20,21,22.start to get higher slightly. Current builds: SotS, USS Consitution, San Felipe, D51 loco, HMS Surprise, RB7, Arab Dhow, Jotika HMS Victory Completed builds: HMS Pickel, Thermopylae, Mississipi river boat, Mary Rose, Cutty Sark, San Francisco II, HMS Victory x5, Titanic Lifeboat, Panart HMS Victory Launch, Hachette Titanic, Virginia Schooner, Endeavour Longboat. http://www.model-space.com/gb/
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Rank: Amateur level 2 Groups: Registered
Joined: 20/09/2012 Posts: 43 Points: 118 Location: Wakefield
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Thanks Chris i've tried everything in the post but still no success,photobucket just won't upload anything for me,i have my pics in documents on pc should be simple but hey,simple would be add photo,browse,select! I'll try again when my blood pressure falls back to normal:) Karl i appreciate your help no end,this forum is priceless and i could not tackle this build with out you:)) should i let the latter ribs rise or do they need to be dropped too? When i do feel confident and get a few bits done i find it so absorbing and love every second,hopefully as my confidence grows i'll crack on a bit more,my cannon paints arrived today so i think thats next:) Tell me the truth,I shall not offend nor be offended
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Hi Hector i load mine direct from pc ,resize your pics to 600 pixcels then when you hit the browse button just go to your pics and load,hope this helps Andy  Current builds:-C57,Zero, Lamborghini Countach, Caldercraft HMS Agamemnon,Robi,R2-D2, MFH Cobra .
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Rank: Amateur level 2 Groups: Registered
Joined: 20/09/2012 Posts: 43 Points: 118 Location: Wakefield
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It would help Andy if i could find a browse button? :) Tell me the truth,I shall not offend nor be offended
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Ok np when you write a post in the bottom left corner there is a tick box with 'attach files to this post' message,tick this and post your message then you should get the photo upload page appear with the browse button.hope this helps Andy Current builds:-C57,Zero, Lamborghini Countach, Caldercraft HMS Agamemnon,Robi,R2-D2, MFH Cobra .
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