Hi All,

I'm a newbie to model boats (although I've made model aircraft and cars in the past) and I've been perusing your forums for the past few days.

I was wondering, might anyone be so kind as to try and help me? I'm struggling to choose between the Hachette Black Pearl and DeAgostini Victory/Sovereign of the Seas.

As much as I'd really like to build the Black Pearl (a few build logs I've seen started on here already), I discovered the DeAgostini Victory and even better I think - the Sovereign of the Seas (it's just so pretty!) and now I'm truly stuck for a decision.

I want to get value for money especially when I'll be spending so much money and time. I noticed the Artesania Victory kit and DeAgostini Victory partworks are similarly priced which leads me to believe the Victory partworks equals (more or less) the value of the kit. On the other hand, a kit of a similar size and (apparent) level of detail as the Hachette Black Pearl (such as the Amati/Victory Models HMS Pegasus) costs £350 - half the eventual total cost of the Hachette Black Pearl.

Combined with the use of paper-overlay decking and what looks like a permanently open-side on the Pearl, I'm struggling to justify it over the Victory/Sovereign of the Seas, despite the Pearl having been my first choice and the driving force behind me considering model boat making in the first place!

Are the DeAgostini kits a little more "grown up" (as it were) compared to the Pearl? The Hachette marketing leads me to think it might be aimed at a younger market, hence the use of paper-overlays and such a large open-side (I wouldn't mind a removable side but I'd like the option of displaying the model either way round on a whim!).

I'd be grateful for any advice anyone can offer on the pros and cons of these different routes and if I've made any false assumptions above please feel free to correct me..

Matthew

Greetings,

I too am an experienced modeler and relatively new to model ship building. I too was debating over different models. I was looking at HMS Victory and USS Constellation from AL.

I decided on Victory because of the fact that the directions are very clear and the whole thing I broken down into small chunks. Because of being in the USA I had the options of buying the model in two parts or all at once. I did the latter and I am glad I did because I have been able to look ahead and plan ahead.

Now after some conversations with my mother she and my Dad decided to buy Constellation for me for my 40th birthday. I have been applying the things I have learned on Victory to help with Constellation. I have used the directions for Victory to help me build Constellation as the AL directions are not the most clear.

If you like the Black Pearl it too could be a way to get started. The directions are also very clear and in small chunks. I am collecting all the issues of BP before I start building. If you enjoy scratch building and kit bashing the BP has plenty of opportunity to do so to make it more accurate to match the movie set/ ship.

Victory can be built with a small section removed for interior details. I have choosen not to do this but I am adding details that are visible through the doors on the main gun deck. I will also be buying some aftermarket enhancement parts to make this model more detailed.

I cannot speak to the SOS as I have not built it. When I saw it I was impressed but to me it looked overwhelming for a first model. Perhaps another here will chime in.

I hope this perspective will be helpful to you in making your choice.

Christopher

Hi Matthew

Like Mr T I would recommend doing the Victory as a starter build as you will garner loads of skills in this build that will set you up to do the SOTS after if you wish to do another build.
Also as its a finished build you have the chance to go through the entire build on the forum and plan around it.
Personally I feel the SOTS is more of an intermediary build rather than a beginners model.
Whatever build you choose there will always be help with any problems that may arise and of course advice if needed.
Hope this helps
regards
Andy

Good luck on your build Matthew. If you go for the SOS I know there are plenty here to help you.

As for the MDF on the BP. I have worked with MDF and there is no reason to be afraid of it. You do not to breath the dust when sanding so a mask would be in order and then do the work outside or have an exhaust fan on. The only other problem I have had with MDF was splitting due to not having a pilot hole.

Again good luck and post lots of pictures.

Christopher

Hi Dominic, I was just wondering... At the beginning of your post you recommended the victory but at the end you suggested that if you were in my position you'd go for the sovereign - do I have that right?

Also I was looking through Bernds Hachette Black Pearl log and saw you'd tried to build the Chinese version but didn't like the wood quality. Was this the 2007/10 version? I had considered this model in place of the Hachette and to try and justify the outlay of building both a Pearl and Sovereign/Victory but Ive seen mixed reviews and the company seems to be shunned?

So, I’ve decided! I’ve tonight subscribed to the Sovereign partworks! Thanks for all those who commented - I added these into a pros and cons for the main boat-builds I was looking at which I’ve attached below incase it can be of any help to anyone. (Many of the points are rather subjective though, being my own personal opinion, so feel free to ignore these - I had to try and narrow it down somehow!)

I chose the Sovereign for a number of reasons but mostly because it’s so differen’t and just looks amazing. I struggled for some time between this and the Victory (which grew on me to the point it was really hard to choose!) but in the end the Sovereign won-out, being the one that initially took my fancy. I understand the Sovereign might be more challenging than the victory (with less available information out there, no extant ship and comparatively harder-to-work materials) but with various DIY experience (I designed and hand-built a CNC router) and my previous Design Tech. teaching experience I’m hoping to muddle through…

I would have really liked to build the Black Pearl but once I’d compared it to the DeAgostini packages I didn’t feel like I could justify it - I wanted more ‘depth’. If money wasn’t an option I would have undoubtedly ended up with this subscription too as a supplementary build! (In truth, if money really wasn’t an option I would have quite likely ended up with the Victory and Surprise as well!)

BTW I know it reads like I’m being overly critical on the Black Pearl here but I really really did like it - without it I wouldn’t have looked at model boat making. However, as I looked into it I became evermore disappointed and disillusioned by each of the choices I discovered they [Amati/Hachette] seemed to have made. For a first build at such a price I wanted something that felt more special and something that I didn’t want to go about modifying or adding lots to.

Matthew



Artesania/DeAgostini Victory

Pro:

- Has excellent instructions and information.
- Lots of community behind it.
- Finished examples exist for reference.
- Can buy books on it and see the real one... Masses (by comparison) of information available if wanted.
- Magazine is featured incl. with info on modelling.
- It looks nice and still has lots of character even though:

Con:
- Looks plainer than sovereign.
- Everyone makes it.


Artesania/DeAgostini Sovereign of the Seas

Pro:
- Its stunning!
- Its ornate.
- It’s regal - you can almost hear the renaissance trumpets!
- (Sounds like) it has good instructions (but maybe not to the Victory standard).
- Still a good community behind it, although maybe smaller than Victory’s.
- Magazine is featured incl. with info on modelling.
- Lots of (potentially) painted parts to sit and take time on (for me at least, a pro!)

Con:
- No as-yet finished examples.
- Harder materials to work with than the Victory


Amati/Hachette Pearl

Pro:
- It’s the Black Pearl!
- It’s a partworks
- It’s an ‘official’ Black Pearl so should be more accurate/true to the one in the films.

Con:
- Paper-overlay decking - so need to buy wood to deck middle/lower levels.
- MDF - there’s no grain so won't look like wood on the open side.
- Chipboard - captains table & chairs so have to be painted rather than stained
- Plastic(?) - ‘Pearl’ figurine. It’s only elastic until it goes brittle and breaks! (Superglue seems to have fixed it!)
- Open sided - so limited to which side displayed closed or would have to modify to make removeable
- Feature-less magazines - no articles on hints/tips/topics on modelling and finishing e.g. paints/varnishes or effects for realism.
Instructions are too simple - I found I wasn’t even reading the text or looking at the pictures other than for identifying which bit goes where. I’d like more ‘depth’ or for them to be a little more concentrated/focussed.
- Desire to modify/add a lot - From what I've seen on some build logs I'd want to modify/add a lot and I’d rather not [feel like I have to] stray too far from the intended finish - I'd want to plank the interior walls, change the post-box red captains walls, replace the overlay with decking, add a removable side etc. For me: to end up needing/wanting to modify/add lots devalues the point of having a kit - i.e. something to follow and enjoy doing step by step. I don't want to spend long research hints, tips & techniques every step of the way or it'll get tedious!
- I think it seems too expensive - compared to the DeAgostini kits for what you get as a package. For me this would niggle and detract from the enjoyment of building it.

P/C:
- Not a real ship - neither a pro or con though if it looks nice.


Chinese 2010 Pearl

Pro:
- It’s the Black Pearl!
- Improvements on the 2007 model.

Con:
- £250-280 upfront.
- Instructions are 11 pages long so whilst improved over the 2007 version they can only fit limited information in them. This might be ok but I’d like more tips/information/asides for a first model.
- Surely want to spread the build out (but ideally not too much) for a first build... Don’t want to bite off more than can chew all at once!
- Legality issues and shunned in the modelling community. Could make community support an issue.
- Would be good for those with some experience [apparently].


Chinese 2007 Pearl

Pro:
- It’s not a bad-looking black Pearl
- It’s a better price than the 2010 model.

Con:
- £200 upfront
- Bad instructions would mean needing to be forever on the internet researching.
- Inaccuracies e.g. the wheel
- Mis-fitting parts
- Legality issues and shunned in the modelling community. Could make community support an issue.

Hi Matthew, judging by the thorough nature you have gone into making your decision I think you will find you will not be disappointed with your choice..... I believe you will thoroughly enjoy the challenge of this build.... will be following your progress and hope you will be producing a build diary.... .. A build diary will help others keep you on track and give any assistance or advice you may need..... .. Good luck with her.....

Regards

Alan

Thank you all, I'm really looking forwards to the build!

I will certainly aim to put together a build log Gandale - once I've received the first few issues I'll see what tools and paints etc I need and make a start asap!

OK, so not to be a hypocrite or anything but I've also just subscribed to the Hachette Black Pearl! It's been niggling!

Ironically I went for it for a lot of the reasons I didn't want to go for it initially - the fact I'll want to do so much to it gives me a chance to make it my own whereas I like the look of the SOTS "as is" and don't want to change it (at least at this early stage).

This way I will have a model to just enjoy making and follow through and one that I have to think about modifying.

It is still really expensive IMHO for what it is (comparatively to the DeAgs/other similar-sized models), but I figure it's the "official" Black Pearl and I can make the missing-side a main focal point (seen some amazingly-done diorama's on some German forums) and I'd like to build in a removable side myself.

Or so goes the aim!