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Nytetrain's 1839 Scottish Maid Build Options
Nytetrain
#1 Posted : 27 May 2017 04:26:29

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I was going to do the Virginia as my first wooden model but I found this one instead and with my discounts it cost the same as the Virginia. I ordered it and it should be here in a week or so.

https://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/lat/lat18021.htm

I liked the look of this ship much better then the Virginia and it is more of the challenge I was looking for at a decent price.

A bit of history on this ship:

Name
SCOTTISH MAID
Construction
WOOD
Type
SCHOONER
Date
1839
Description
Rig: SCHOONER
Yard Number: 101
Total cost of build £1700

In the Aberdeen Directory for 1862-3, the vessel is listed as belonging to George Leslie & Co.

Description: 1 deck, 2 masts, schooner rigged, square stern, carvel built, no galleries, female figurehead, 17th Sept. 1888 the registration cancelled. The vessel was lost on 26th Aug. 1888 at 7:30pm on the Knave Stone, North Sunderland. The ship was owned at the time by a Mr. John Crombie.
(Source: Aberdeen Shipping Register (Aberdeen City Archives))

The schooner SCOTTISH MAID, built by the Hall shipyard in 1839, was the first vessel with the raked stem known as the 'Aberdeen bow'. SCOTTISH MAID was intended for the Aberdeen-London trade, where speed was crucial to compete with steamships.

The Hall brothers tested various hulls in a water tank and found the clipper design most effective. The design was influenced by tonnage regulations. Tonnage measured a ship's cargo capacity and was used to calculate tax and harbour dues.

The new 1836 regulations measured depth and breadth with length measured at half midship depth. Extra length above this level was tax-free and became a feature of clippers. SCOTTISH MAID proved swift, regularly making the journey from Aberdeen to London in 49 hours, and reliable and the design was widely copied.

Aberdeen Journal, in 1848, described the construction of the first true Clipper Ship and what was to bcome known around the world as the Aberdeen Bow:

'The Messrs Hall commenced framing the schooner from aft, and continued the frames until they reached the fore end of the keel.
Thus far the work had proceeded, when the builders suggested a deviation from the models, which they belived would proved to be a decided improvement.
They proposed to run the stem out so as to form the cutwiter, the effect of which would be to draw the waterlines finer at the bow and, as a natural consequence, the vessel would divide the water easily, be more buoyant forward, and of less register tonnage than if she were built on the old plan.
The idea did not at first meet the views of the owners. A skeleton bow was then erected, and not a few of the curious examined it and were skeptial of the uncommon design. After due consideration, the owners gave consent to proceed with the vessel according to the skeleton model, and in that style she was finished and launched.
The look of the schooner in the water was encouraging. It was evident from the appearance of her waterlines that the idea of a perfect bow was realized, and some of those who were at first opposed to the project were now among the warmest commendators.'

Builder's Certificate transcription from Aberdeen City Archive Harbour Register entry:
These certify that we Alexr. Hall and Coy., Shipbuilders, did build and Launch from our building Yard at Aberdeen in the County of Aberdeen, North Britain upon the fifteenth day of July in this present year the Ship or Vessel called the Scottish Maid of Aberdeen, being a Square Sterned, Carvel Built Schooner Rigged Vessel having one Deck and two Masts, a fixed Bowsprit, a Female Figure Head, no Gallery, that her length from the after part of the Main Stem to the fore part of the Stern Post aloft is ninety two feet and four tenths, that her greatest Breadth Amidships (Inside) is 19.3/10 feet, her Depth of Hold 11.7/10 feet and is of the Burthen or Measurement of 142. 347/3500 Tons, of which Ship or Vessel Messrs Alexander Nicol and George Munro, Shipowners, Aberdeen, holding 12/64 for their share, carrying on business under the Firm of Nicol and Munro, William Hogarth, Esq., Shipowner, Aberdeen holding 8/64 for his share George Davidson, Esq., Shipowner, Aberdeen holding 6/64 for his share, James Nicol, Advocate, Donald Gordon Stewart, Fish Curer and Benjamin Moir, Merchant, all of Aberdeen holding 4/64 each for their share, Charles Brown and Alexander Troup, Corn Merchants, Mill of Sclattie Parish of New Hills holding 4/64 each for their share, James Hall and William Hall, Shipbuilders, James Murray, Advocate and William Milne, Flesher, all of Aberdeen holding 2/64 each for their share, Alexr. Pirrie, Esq., Stoneywood, Frances Pirrie and Alexr. Pirrie, Jnr., Paper Manufacturers, Aberdeen holding 2/64 each for their share, all of the County of Aberdeen, George Nicol, Surgeon in the Island of Jamaica and James C. Crispin, Merchant, London holding 2/64 each for their share—were the first purchasers.
Given under our hands at Aberdeen this 7th day of August 1839.
(signed) Alexander Hall & Co

Owners’ Transactions:

25th July 1843
Alexander Nicol and George Munro, Shipowners in Aberdeen, carrying on business under the firm of Nicol and Munro, have transferred by Bill of Sale, dated 16th Febuary last, 12/64 shares to Alexander Nicol and William Nicol, carrying on business under the firm of Aleander and William Nicol, merchants in Aberdeen.

3rd November 1843
George Gibson of Bassinghall Street, London and Robert Goulding, Corn Factor, Hunsleydrum, Surrey, Trustees on the sequestrated Estate of James Clark Crispin, Merchant, London have transferred by Bill of sale, dated 4th September last, 2/64 shares to Alexander Nicol and William Nicol, carrying on business under the firm of Alexander and William Nicol, Merchants in Aberdeen.

3rd November 1843
The Owners of this vessel have transferred by Bills of Sale dated 30th Aug., 5th, 6th, 9th, and 11th Sept., 10th, Oct., and 2nd Nov., 1843, 64/64shares to George Leslie, Shipowner in Aberdeen.
Source: Aberdeen Register of Shipping. (Aberdeen City Archives)

Masters:

1839/46 A. Watson

Owners:

1839/43 Nicol and Coy.
1844/46 G. Leslie

Route:

1839/43 Abdn -- London
1844/45 Abdn – Coasting
1846 No voyage recorded
1847 Not registered in Lloyds

Notes:
Lloyds Classification 5A1- Oak, Beech and Larch with Fir Planking.
1842 Damage Repairs
1843 Large Repairs

(Source: Lloyds Shipping Registers)

The Standard, London, 9/9/1839:
"The gale yesterday - Scottish Maid, clipper built schooner, Captain Watson, of and from Aberdeen with a general cargo, arrived yesterday with lost of foretopmast."

1862: Master - Greig; Owner/Agent - George Leslie & Co.
Shipbuilder
A. HALL & Co., Aberdeen
Dimensions
Length 92'4" x Breadth 19'4" x Depth 11'7"
142 Tons

I have seen other builds of this model but there is not a lot to go on as far as color and such as cameras hadn't been invented yet. Any help with research would be greatly appreciated.
Best Regards,
Ron


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birdaj2
#2 Posted : 27 May 2017 08:37:27

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Ron

Look forward to seeing how you get on with this one.

Really pleased you have managed to find one that you like a lot.
Happy Modelling

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darbyvet
#3 Posted : 27 May 2017 14:21:33

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Thats a very good choice.The shape of the bow will make planking much easier than with the ships with the highly curved bow.I look forward to seeing your build.There are a ton of really talented wooden ship builders on this forum to offer help if you need it


Carl

Nytetrain
#4 Posted : 12 June 2017 15:43:29

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I have started my first wooden ship build and I have a couple of issues already:

1) My keel is a little bowed... I am guessing this will straighten out when the decks are installed.

2) One of my bulkhead frames isn't square with the false keel. Not sure how it got all kitty whampus as the rest are square. Not entirely sure how to fix this. (I was going to leave it in the jig and soak the entire thing in water to soften the glue and try to resquare the frame with the L-brackets and clamps.)

3) My ship is 1:50 scale... how long should my deck planks be. The instructions have them running the length of the deck but this doesn't seem correct to me. I would rather have the formula then the answer.
Best Regards,
Ron


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Martyn Ingram
#5 Posted : 12 June 2017 15:57:03

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BigGrin Hi Ron if you post a picture of the keel so we can see how bowed it is and with the bulkhead I would paint the joint with hot water to soften the glue as soaking the hole thing might blow the plywood Crying . The planks are usually 15-20 foot long so you can brak it down to your scale Cool

Hope this helps rgd Martyn
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Nytetrain
#6 Posted : 12 June 2017 16:01:33

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Thanks Martyn,

It's not bowed a lot. Just enough to make me cringe, I am more worried about the bulk head frame. I will post a pic later.
Best Regards,
Ron


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Sticky Wickett
#7 Posted : 12 June 2017 16:22:06

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Hi Ron,

1/50 scale you say?

I hope I'm not going to teach you to suck eggs on this, so apologies if you know this already

To find the correct length of your planks first calculate how many mm's there are in one foot.

25.4mm = 1" [inch]

12" per foot therefore 25.4 x 12 = 304.8mm

1 foot equals 304.8mm.

If you now divide 304.8mm by the scale your working in [1:50].

So, 304.8 / 50 = 6.096.

You can round this number to make it easier, therefore 6.1

What this means is that 6.1mm on a 1/50 scale model is equivalent to 1 foot in real life.

Therefore a 20 feet long wooden plank would be,

20 x 6.1 = 122mm long in 1/50 scale.

I hope this will help you in determining the lengths of plank required?

Regards,
Phil W.
Completed projects: 1/43 scale Bedford HA van / 1/43 scale MG TD sports car
Current projects: 1/48 scale U-boat [U230]
Future projects: 1/148 scale railway diorama / 1/50 scale R/C Volvo F89 logging truck / 1/148 scale Thunderbirds Fireflash
darbyvet
#8 Posted : 12 June 2017 16:32:53

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Nytetrain wrote:
Thanks Martyn,

It's not bowed a lot. Just enough to make me cringe, I am more worried about the bulk head frame. I will post a pic later.



You want it as straight as possible or planking will be very difficult and you may end up with a warped hull.

Carl

Nytetrain
#9 Posted : 12 June 2017 20:44:18

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Don't know if this picture helps much. The keel is straight in the jig. The red arrow is the wonky bulwark frame.



Nytetrain attached the following image(s):
Scottish Maid Keel.jpg
Best Regards,
Ron


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Martyn Ingram
#10 Posted : 12 June 2017 20:56:37

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BigGrin Hi if you have used PVA glue a drop of hot water on the joint should soften the glue so you can remove the bulkhead and realign it Cool just wondered if you can show a pic of the keel out of the jig

Cheers Martyn
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Nytetrain
#11 Posted : 12 June 2017 21:18:48

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I am using this glue:

http://www.hobbylobby.co...nce-SIG-Bond-Glue/p/939

I just painted it with very hot water and it seemed to soften up pretty good. I re-clamped it and it seems to have straightened some. I will take another pic and a pic of the keel out of the jig when its dry.
Best Regards,
Ron


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Nytetrain
#12 Posted : 12 June 2017 22:00:32

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Ok so this worked out pretty good. Took Martyn's suggestion and painted the joint with VERY hot water. Gave it a wiggle and re-clamped it.

Pic 1: Measured both sides with the caliper and the square and it looks pretty good.

Pic 2: View down the keel of the bowing in it:

Pic 3: Put a straight edge along it best I could. I am hoping this will be fine when I glue the decks on. When it is in the jig everything is straight and square. This was a one piece false keel and I did notice the bow in it before I jigged it up. What should I have done to get this straight before I jigged it?

Nytetrain attached the following image(s):
Keel 2.jpg
Keel 3.jpg
Keel 4.jpg
Best Regards,
Ron


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Gandale
#13 Posted : 12 June 2017 23:24:02

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Hi Ron, you say everything is ok when in the jig. If that is the case then leave her in the jig until after you have the decks in place and the first few rows of planking done. The purpose of the jig is to make sure everything stays straight and true. The planking rows will keep everything straight but you mustn't be tempted to remove her from the jig until after those first few rows are in place.....Cool Cool Cool .. Check after each row is applied that everything remains as it should. So far looks like you're off to a good start, will be following....Cool Cool

Regards

Alan
DaDokta
#14 Posted : 13 June 2017 10:38:36

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Hi Ron!

As Alan said - keep her in your jig as long as you can - and always check that everything is straight!

Greetings,
Walter



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Nytetrain
#15 Posted : 13 June 2017 20:00:22

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Ok, I have another question. My instructions say to glue the deck planks onto the deck before installing the deck onto the frames. The thing is the frames bend toward the gunwales and I am afraid the deck planks will separate when I go to bend the deck to conform to the frames. I was looking at Graeme's build and on his ship he glued them on after.
Best Regards,
Ron


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arpurchase
#16 Posted : 13 June 2017 20:41:28

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Plank it after the deck is glued down also doing it that way you can use planking nails to fix the deck along with glue. Planking the deck after fixing will also cover up the nails used when fixing the deck in position.
Current builds:-C57,Zero, Lamborghini Countach, Caldercraft HMS Agamemnon,Robi,R2-D2, MFH Cobra .

Nytetrain
#17 Posted : 15 June 2017 17:02:32

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Here we go with another newbie question Flapper The instructions call for Makali wood to use for the deck but they also say I have only 3 types of wood: walnut (dark), sapelia (reddish) and basswood (light)... no mention of makali in the parts list. I have one bundle of thin walnut which I am guessing is for the finished hull. A bundle of light colored wood for the primary hull and a bundle of assorted dowels and dark color wood which is for the masts, yardarms and deck furniture. I have measured everything and the only wood that is the size they are asking for, for the decking, is the basswood. I am guessing these instructions are translated from Italian and I am losing something in translation. Or I am just an idiot and cant see whats in front of my face. The picture on the box isn't that clear but the decking that they used looks lighter in color. End the confusion my friends so that this build my move on.
Best Regards,
Ron


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Gandale
#18 Posted : 15 June 2017 21:07:24

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Hi Ron, I haven't built this kit so cannot say for definite but, if the basswood is the only wood in the kit that fits the dimensions required for planking the deck then basswood is what I would use. Looking at the pics I would say the decks are basswood and have been stained to darken/weather....Cool Cool ..

Regards

Alan
Nytetrain
#19 Posted : 08 November 2017 01:49:55

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Ok guys here is an update: Against what you guys said I went and glued the deck planks on before attaching it to the frame per the instructions. I used tissue paper on the planks to simulate the caulking. I test fitting it to the frame several times and there is no separation of the planks. I did screw up my planking offset order but you cant tell unless you look really close. A couple of the planks had larger then normal gaps in them. I am guessing this is from them not being even all the way down. An one was a bit short by a millimeter or so but it will be covered up by the hatch frame. This is my first wooden ship build so I am learning from my mistakes for when I am ready to tackle the Cutty Sark and the Constitution. I will post more pictures when I have the deck attached to the frame completely.
Nytetrain attached the following image(s):
Deck.jpg
Foredeck.jpg
Aft Deck.jpg
Best Regards,
Ron


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Garth
#20 Posted : 08 November 2017 06:27:14

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Hi Ron,
You have made a good start. Looking forward to your next update.
Kind regards,
Garth
"Measure twice, cut once!!!"
Finished!!! HMS Victory,
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