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JohnM's Victory Build - Restarted Options
jmmx15
#1 Posted : 22 June 2021 21:03:06

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Hi All, I've been reading through your diary's as I've been getting Ye Olde Shipyard restarted to continue working on my Victory. I had started it a few years ago and then we moved and life has interfered with the process. I've now got a fairly functional work area and have restarted.

When I left off, I had all the ribs installed and the lower deck. I'm at the point of getting ready to start fairing the hull. Before I do it, I have some basswood pieces that I'm going to glue into the voids between the bow formers and between the last 2 ribs at the stern. I'd read an article on fairing that suggested it and it makes sense to me!

Before I start the fairing and planking, I decided to build the 4 small boats. I've finished the launch (pictures attached) and am priming the cutter, it's thwart supports, floorboards and thwarts---it's almost done. Once I've finished that I'll do the pinnace and barge. I figured these would give me a good introduction to planking. I'm not sure how much I've gleaned on planking with the small boats. I think planking them is a fairly different animal than planking the Victory!

For now, I have a few questions as I restart and continue on the small boats:

1. How do you paint the brass floorboards in the boats? I wasn't happy with whatever I did on the launch but it won't be seen when finished. For the other boats I'm thinking of trying to scuff up the brass with a sanding stick, then very lightly prime it with my airbrush. After that I'm on the fence about trying to brush paint them or airbrush them. My ears are open for suggestions!

2. Now that the launch is finished, and will sit with it's 3 brothers for quite a while, should I lacquer or varnish it? I'm also wondering about spraying them with Future floor polish. It's used quite often by plastic modelers to protect their finished work

3. What do you think of the Victory add ons from Woody's Modelworks
https://www.woodysmodelworks.co.uk ? Some of them have my interest including the Gallery, Bow Detail, Beakhead enhancement, Entry Ports, Cabins, buckets and Water Level markers (I'm going to tile my hull) kits

4. I've been using an electric plank bender for the small boats. I burnt myself once and found that I almost need 3 hands to use it with the form! Part of the solution may just be to put the form in a vice. I'm going to give that a try on the next boat. What has been your experience with the electric plank bender vs. the crimper with the razor blade?

5. Can you also please point me to any good discussions about the use of planking clamps, pins, binder clips etc. when doing the hull planking? I'm leaning towards binder clips and limited use of pins.

That's it for now, hopefully I can finish the cutter soon and get on to the other 2 boats. I actually think I might do an assembly line for the cannons and the anchors before heading over to the ship

Regards
jmmx15 attached the following image(s):
20210420_105545.jpg
20210420_105550.jpg
20210420_105556.jpg
20210420_105611.jpg
goddo
#2 Posted : 22 June 2021 22:42:29

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Hi John,
Welcome back to the Victory build and look forward to watching your progress.
I'll leave the answers to your questions to the more experienced members on here.
Good luck.
Chris
jmmx15
#3 Posted : 23 June 2021 16:26:51

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When building the 18' Cutter I came across a problem in the instructions. Under the Pack 12, Stage 118 instructions under the heading "Fitting out the 18 foot Cutter you are told to cut two (2) 105 mm strips for the thwarts. Before I cut these, I checked the measurement (I'm more used to inches than mm).

Turns out my Cutter is only just over 65 mm in length. 105 mm was going to be just a bit to long! After trimming and testing, my thwarts ended up being just under 60 mm. For those who've reached the Cutter, which is more of a bear to plank than the Launch, I suggest start your thwarts at 61 - 61.5 mm and trim down from there

Hope this helps at least one person trying to build the Cutter with sausage fingers like me!

--John
Gandale
#4 Posted : 23 June 2021 23:11:34

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Hi John, welcome back.. great to have you with us again. Looks like you're doing a great job on the ships boats, lovely work....Cool Cool Cool

I'll try to answer each of your questions in turn.

jmmx15 wrote:


1. How do you paint the brass floorboards in the boats? I wasn't happy with whatever I did on the launch but it won't be seen when finished. For the other boats I'm thinking of trying to scuff up the brass with a sanding stick, then very lightly prime it with my airbrush. After that I'm on the fence about trying to brush paint them or airbrush them. My ears are open for suggestions!

My method was to lightly sand the surface with fine grade sandpaper. Then brushed on a coat of Mr Hobby Mr Metal primer and left to cure for 2 days. Using my airbrush I then gave a fine dusting of matt black paint. Left to dry then fitted to the boats.

2. Now that the launch is finished, and will sit with it's 3 brothers for quite a while, should I lacquer or varnish it? I'm also wondering about spraying them with Future floor polish. It's used quite often by plastic modelers to protect their finished work

Either or... My preference was to use Vallejo matt and silk varnish applied with my airbrush. Would suggest you try painting and varnishing some test pieces to see if it turns out the way you want. Worked for me....

3. What do you think of the Victory add ons from Woody's Modelworks
https://www.woodysmodelworks.co.uk ? Some of them have my interest including the Gallery, Bow Detail, Beakhead enhancement, Entry Ports, Cabins, buckets and Water Level markers (I'm going to tile my hull) kits

Have never tried any of them so would be unfair of me to comment except to say that some of them do look good...

4. I've been using an electric plank bender for the small boats. I burnt myself once and found that I almost need 3 hands to use it with the form! Part of the solution may just be to put the form in a vice. I'm going to give that a try on the next boat. What has been your experience with the electric plank bender vs. the crimper with the razor blade?

I've used a number of methods to bend planks and have always reverted to using an electric plank bender. Find the strips will bend very easily when soaked in warm water until pliable. Once I have the necessary bend then I'll temporarily pin the plank in place and leave to dry, then shape and fit. There are many videos on the tube showing how to bend and fit strips, some very good viewing to be found there...

5. Can you also please point me to any good discussions about the use of planking clamps, pins, binder clips etc. when doing the hull planking? I'm leaning towards binder clips and limited use of pins.

I don't like pinning directly through planking strips if I can help it, I prefer to use map pins, pinned to the side of the plank into the ribs then removing the pins when the glue has dried. I compiled a topic on this very subject that you may find interesting..

https://forum.model-spac...spx?g=posts&t=25807



Hope you find the answers useful.

Regards

Alan

jmmx15
#5 Posted : 24 June 2021 12:59:02

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Thank you Alan for taking the time to answer my questions, of course, I have a follow up or 2!

How long did you soak your planks for? On the boats I found that just running them under the tap for a few seconds did the job but am sure that won’t work for the ship’s planks!

Can you attach more than one row of planks at a time using the map pins? Won’t they introduce e a gap, though very small between the rows?

Can you think of any major gotchas that you or others have come across during your build? I’m thinking of things like the cannons on the upper deck and their gun ports not lining up vertically? Or doing certain tasks earlier than what the manual says due to easier access?

I think the first few lessons I’ve learnt is that the plank bender will burn you, don’t scrimp on a cheap set of calipers, manicure sticks are awesome, get a good set of micro drill bits, and making a drawing of where the thwarts and oar cutouts go relative to the ribs really helps and the Dremel tool used in moderation is your friend!

—John
Gandale
#6 Posted : 28 June 2021 23:16:04

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jmmx15 wrote:
Thank you Alan for taking the time to answer my questions, of course, I have a follow up or 2!

How long did you soak your planks for? On the boats I found that just running them under the tap for a few seconds did the job but am sure that won’t work for the ship’s planks!

Can you attach more than one row of planks at a time using the map pins? Won’t they introduce e a gap, though very small between the rows?

Can you think of any major gotchas that you or others have come across during your build? I’m thinking of things like the cannons on the upper deck and their gun ports not lining up vertically? Or doing certain tasks earlier than what the manual says due to easier access?

I think the first few lessons I’ve learnt is that the plank bender will burn you, don’t scrimp on a cheap set of calipers, manicure sticks are awesome, get a good set of micro drill bits, and making a drawing of where the thwarts and oar cutouts go relative to the ribs really helps and the Dremel tool used in moderation is your friend!

—John


No problem at all John, am happy to be of assistance whenever possible.

Soaking the planking strips - how long they should be soaked for really depends on the type of wood. I found the birch strips provided in the Victory kit would need to be soaked in warm water for some 20-30 minutes. I soak until the strips become pliable.

Map Pins - my method is to attach a strip and pin along the upper edge. By the time you have one row fitted and start fitting the next row the glue will have taken hold. This means I remove the pins as I go and refit the pins to hold the next row.

As for glitches, follow the Official Build Diary. This highlights any potential pitfalls that were identified during the course of the build and things that need to be looked out for. Lot of builders didn't ensure the stern ribs, rib 30 was fully seated. They didn't notice this rib is prone to moving especially if you turn the hull over before letting the glue set. Check the seating of these stern ribs often until they are firmly glued in place.

Hope this helps..

Regards

Alan


tom.ganc
#7 Posted : 20 November 2021 19:05:09

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It's great to hear this news, we can't wait to see more pics from your build.

Of course we will be happy to help if you get stuck.

Happy building

Tom
jmmx15
#8 Posted : 16 January 2023 23:00:48

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Happy and Healthy New Year to all.

It's been a while since I've posted. I just seem to go in spurts of time where I can work on the model and longer periods where I can't!

I've finished all 4 of Victory's boats, I will post some pictures later. The anchors are about done (I broke one and am working on getting a replacement since I've been unable to fix it). I'm currently working on the 12 lb guns, the "real" ones on the carriage and the carronades. I have 3 questions at this point:

1. I have some good looking cannons and some not as good! How many presentable cannons will I need for the Victory itself? I'm not doing the cutaway but may build it to the side of the model with the left over cannons. From what I've seen, I think that I need 10 good looking cannons?

2. I've been looking at the nails for the cannons. Looking ahead, I've seen that when attaching the cannons to the deck the instructions say to drill holes through the carriages to insert the nails and nail the guns to the deck. I've seen a few pictures of Victory and I don't think that I've seen similar nails. It looks like a bear to get them drilled as well. My current thought is to ignore the nails and glue the cannons wheels to the deck when the time comes. What did you do with the cannon nails?

2. I'm doing the painted version of the model. I'm about to wire up the blocks for the carronades. How have you colored or finished the blocks on the model?

Interesting note while working on the cannons and carronade. I bought some Birchwood Brass black to turn the brass parts black. I've noticed that it didn't work on the "brass" strips of the carronade or the "brass" pieces for the wheels. It also did not work on the nails for the cannons. It worked fine for all of the other metallic pieces. I ended up priming and painting where the Brass Black didn't work. I'm guessing there are some pieces that look like brass but are some other alloy. All pieces were dipped in white vinegar then dried before putting them in the Brass Black.

Thanks in advance as always,

--John
delboy271155
#9 Posted : 17 January 2023 15:10:17
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Hi John, BigGrin

Unfortunately I can`t help with your questions as not built to where you are at, but its good to see you back with your Victory Build. Good Luck going forward.

ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp


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Plymouth57
#10 Posted : 17 January 2023 21:45:46

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Hi there John!
Like Delboy I haven't built this Victory (yet)BigGrin so I'm not sure about the numbers of cannons etc. I would say that regards the brass not going black in all cases, the brass that did go black is probably 'raw' brass in its natural state whereas the parts that didn't blacken are still real brass but probably with a clear manufacturer-applied lacquer to protect it from tarnishing. The problem is the blacking chemical won't penetrate the lacquer and so doesn't alter the brass itself. If its a brass strip you could try going over it with steel wool, that might remove the lacquer enough to let the blackening work.
With regards to the blocks, the best and easiest way to turn them black is to get a can of spirit based black or ebony wood dye. I'm using one from a DIY company called Rustins. Simply pour some into a container and drop the wooden blocks in to leave for a few hours (I go overnight). Then remove them with tweezers and let them dry out on some kitchen roll or similar. When they are dry they'll be a nice jet black and the spirit base doesn't raise the grain or make them swell up like water based dye or stain would. If the blocks are highly polished hardwood you might need to do them a couple of times, the standard softwood blocks do it in one soak.
Hope that helps and best of luck.

Robin.
First wooden ship: The Grimsby 12 Gun 'Frigate' by Constructo Second: Bounty DelPrado Part Works Third: HMS Victory DelPrado Part Works 1/100 scale
Diorama of the Battle of the Brandywine from the American Revolutionary War Diorama of the Battle of New Falkland (unfinished sci-fi), Great War Centenary Diorama of the Messines Ridge Assault
Index for the Victory diary is on page 1
jmmx15
#11 Posted : 01 July 2024 17:27:07

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Hi all,

I've once again restarted working on my HMS Victory. I rearranged my office making it more conducive to having a shipyard and am now working on the ship regularly.

I've done the first six (6) rows of planks. I made a few discoveries along the way (described below) but am now on rows 7 and 8. In the manuals and Tomick's notes I saw:

Fit the first plank in layer 7 between frames 24 and 17, then fit the aft plank (but do not secure in place), and put the template against the hull, making sure it lines up with the bottom plank and the front of frame 27, mark the end of the plank and cut to length. This plank will also need to be tapered by about 1mm along its length, which is to keep the line of planks parallel to the deck line rather than rising upwards towards the stern, sand the taper and glue/pin the plank into position.

I have a question about the tapering, when they say "This plank will also need to be tapered by about 1 mm along its length" do they mean that I should remove 1 mm of material from the top of the entire plank or that I should start at the end that butts up to frame 24 and taper it 1 mm gradually from there to the end? I've tried it the first way and it looks like it will leave a gap when I glue the row 8 plank on top of it.

My next question is about the tapering of the bow planks for rows 7 to 11. The instructions say to taper the part of the planks that wrap around the bow to keep them from rising too far around frames 12 to 14 (I'm not even sure where frame 12 is!). I took five (5) pieces of unbent scrap plank and taped them together then laid them on the bow on top of the first 6 planks. The top of these ended flush with the bow formers. Since they appear like they will lie "correctly" do I need to taper them at all? I'm considering bending the bow planks for 7 to 11 and rough placing them before tapering. Bottom line, do I need to taper at all?

As mentioned, here are a few things I have discovered or figured out having done the first six (6) rows of planks:
1. Soaking the planks in hot water for 15 - 30 minutes and then bending them with the soldering iron bender on the bending form works best for me. I tried the dab a little water on the plank then bend the plank over the bender, the heat gun routine, etc. None of these worked save for the soaking method!
2. I tried map pins to hold the planks but found them too hard to push in. I'm using the binder clip trick where I can get them in. I got the Pin pushing tool from Micromark and with predrilled holes in the planks, it works great! When I use the binder clips, I still pin the front and back of the plank.
3. I found cutting the gun ports to not be too bad. I drilled the initial hole then used a Dremel cutting bit (which look like a drill bit) and that worked wonderfully! I was able to rough cut each gun port in less than a minute!

I will send pictures in the next few weeks. Once again, I appreciate everyone's help, support and kind words as I once again try to get this thing finished!

Regards,

--John
goddo
#12 Posted : 01 July 2024 18:50:10

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Hi John,
Good on you for sticking with it and restarting your build.
Look forward to seeing further posts and pics as work progresses. Good luck.
Chris
delboy271155
#13 Posted : 01 July 2024 19:25:57
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Hi John, BigGrin

Things have moved on a bit since your last post, but lets see what we can do to help you on your way.

Firstly, it would be a great help if you could quote an issue number, ie 1 - 120 so we can go straight to your problem rather than search for it.

One quick answer I may have to help, is tapering. If my limited knowledge is any good, I think that means this:

If a plank is 5mm wide and it says taper by 1mm to the other end, it means the plank should end up 4mm at the other end, by tapering 0.5mm down from the top and 0.5mm up from the bottom at the far end. Should you fully taper on the top/bottom only you would end up with an odd shaped plank and most probably end up with gaps with subsequent planks. I hope this makes sense. Blink

Another tip for assistance is the need for pictures, they do say "a picture paints a thousand words".

Good to see you back on the forum, so keep posting and lets see if we can`t get you the help you need.


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jmmx15
#14 Posted : 01 July 2024 20:47:27

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The part re: the stern plank for row 7 is in Issue 24, Page 138, step 2. I took a closer look at the picture and it does look like the end of the plank that butts up against the mid-ship plank at frame 24 is 5 mm and the end overhanging the stern appears to be tapered. I'm going to pull the plank off and try it again!

Speaking of tapering planks, how do you folks do it?

The bow plank tapering is discussed on the next page, 139 in steps 3 and 4. Here are a few pictures.
jmmx15 attached the following image(s):
20240621_083952.jpg
20240621_083958.jpg
20240621_084017.jpg
20240621_084029.jpg
delboy271155
#15 Posted : 01 July 2024 21:53:35
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Hi John, BigGrin

I`ve worked out where you are at. Blink

Been a little difficult as this kit has been released several times with the instructions in different formats. I have the printed magazines and the downloads for double packs when the kit went to 12 months.

The stern plank for row 7 does indeed need to be tapered by 1mm. The plank runs from rib 24 to the stern and is trimmed at an angle by the stern using the template. Now, as the shape of the hull changes bow to stern and deck down to the keel or upwards, planks have to be tapered to keep them level with the decks. The stern plank on level 7 is one of these.

So you have fitted the centre plank from rib 17 to 24. The stern plank then will be full width where it butts to the mid plank at rib 24 and taper towards the stern. The full taper is on the underside of the plank. This allows the row 7 plank to follow the row 6 plank below it, without plank 7 rising too high. (It should remain roughly level with the first deck above it.

Hope this helps explain your question.

Attached photos can be up to 650 pixels wide to fit the forum. If not sure how to go about this let me know and we can deal with that as well. this will make pics easier to see the detail on them.

Regards
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jmmx15
#16 Posted : 02 July 2024 22:23:45

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OK, I get it now for the stern planks. I also made a mistake with the layer 6 stern planks. I've popped off both the layer 6 and 7 stern planks and will replace them.

I'm still wondering what tools, techniques you folks use to taper the planks?

What do you think about my bow planks for layers 7 through 11? The layer 1 through 6 planks aren't rising so do I need to taper the 7 through 11 planks?

Thanks,

--John
goddo
#17 Posted : 03 July 2024 10:16:25

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Hi John,

Glad you are enjoying the HMS Victory build.
In addition to Dereks excellent advice, there are also a full set of Official DeAg Build videos available on youtube.
I found these invaluable when building mine. They are basically the same as the instruction manuals but sometimes a video helps too.

Chris
delboy271155
#18 Posted : 03 July 2024 12:10:09
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Hi John, BigGrin

Tapering:

Its a little dependant on the amount/length of the taper required.

For a relatively short plank like the one on row 7 and the fact you only remove 1mm, my personal choice would be a block and sandpaper.

For a longer and/or deeper taper, I would mark the plank, then trim 0.5mm away from the line (on the scrap side). To trim, I use a very sharp knife and 6 inch steel rule, then sand down to the line with the block and sandpaper as before.

With the trimming method you have to be careful that the wood does not crack along the grain as you cut. To reduce the possibility of this occurring don`t cut through in one go. Take three or even four cuts making sure the ruler does not move.

These are my preferred methods, others will have their own ways of doing it.

Trial and practice is the order of the day and you will find the best method for you.

Hope this helps.

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delboy271155
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delboy271155
#19 Posted : 03 July 2024 12:31:28
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Hi again John, BigGrin

Bow planking:

I downloaded your pic and expanded it as much as I could before the clarity went.

It looks pretty good to me from that pic.

Things to remember:

This is the first layer of planking and will be the basis for the finer second layer. You are at the mercy of the wood quality of thickness, but the good news is that there will be a major sanding job to do when you finish layer 1 and that could involve using some filler on low spots or small gaps and then more sanding. Its this process that will determine the quality of finish you get with layer 2.

When taking pictures, use the biggest pic size available on your camera (I use 4000 pixels width) and edit them down to 650 pixels width for the forum. That way if you post a pic on the forum it will appear at the maximum size and if its relevant to a question, it can be downloaded by the person viewing and expanded back to its original size without loss of quality.

Hope this clears up a few of your questions.


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delboy271155
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jmmx15
#20 Posted : 07 July 2024 18:52:44

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Points: 38
Location: Crawfordville, FL, US
I decided to redo some of my bow planking. The bow planks for rows 4, 5 and 6 were not directly attached to ribs 11, 13 and 14. I used pieces of cardstock and plank scraps to create "shims" to sit between the planks and ribs. While it made my bow look very nice I suspected that it would cause me issues later. I decided to remove the 4, 5 and 6 bow planks and try again.

After I remove them, I noticed that the planks for rows 1, 2 and 3 were glued to 13 and 14 but not 11 (you can see this in the attached pictures from the port side of the bow). Is this going to cause me problems later? should I remove rows 1, 2 and 3 and redo them as well?

Thanks in advance,

--John
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