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JohnM's Victory Build - Restarted Options
jmmx15
#1 Posted : 22 June 2021 21:03:06

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Location: Crawfordville, FL, US
Hi All, I've been reading through your diary's as I've been getting Ye Olde Shipyard restarted to continue working on my Victory. I had started it a few years ago and then we moved and life has interfered with the process. I've now got a fairly functional work area and have restarted.

When I left off, I had all the ribs installed and the lower deck. I'm at the point of getting ready to start fairing the hull. Before I do it, I have some basswood pieces that I'm going to glue into the voids between the bow formers and between the last 2 ribs at the stern. I'd read an article on fairing that suggested it and it makes sense to me!

Before I start the fairing and planking, I decided to build the 4 small boats. I've finished the launch (pictures attached) and am priming the cutter, it's thwart supports, floorboards and thwarts---it's almost done. Once I've finished that I'll do the pinnace and barge. I figured these would give me a good introduction to planking. I'm not sure how much I've gleaned on planking with the small boats. I think planking them is a fairly different animal than planking the Victory!

For now, I have a few questions as I restart and continue on the small boats:

1. How do you paint the brass floorboards in the boats? I wasn't happy with whatever I did on the launch but it won't be seen when finished. For the other boats I'm thinking of trying to scuff up the brass with a sanding stick, then very lightly prime it with my airbrush. After that I'm on the fence about trying to brush paint them or airbrush them. My ears are open for suggestions!

2. Now that the launch is finished, and will sit with it's 3 brothers for quite a while, should I lacquer or varnish it? I'm also wondering about spraying them with Future floor polish. It's used quite often by plastic modelers to protect their finished work

3. What do you think of the Victory add ons from Woody's Modelworks
https://www.woodysmodelworks.co.uk ? Some of them have my interest including the Gallery, Bow Detail, Beakhead enhancement, Entry Ports, Cabins, buckets and Water Level markers (I'm going to tile my hull) kits

4. I've been using an electric plank bender for the small boats. I burnt myself once and found that I almost need 3 hands to use it with the form! Part of the solution may just be to put the form in a vice. I'm going to give that a try on the next boat. What has been your experience with the electric plank bender vs. the crimper with the razor blade?

5. Can you also please point me to any good discussions about the use of planking clamps, pins, binder clips etc. when doing the hull planking? I'm leaning towards binder clips and limited use of pins.

That's it for now, hopefully I can finish the cutter soon and get on to the other 2 boats. I actually think I might do an assembly line for the cannons and the anchors before heading over to the ship

Regards
jmmx15 attached the following image(s):
20210420_105545.jpg
20210420_105550.jpg
20210420_105556.jpg
20210420_105611.jpg
goddo
#2 Posted : 22 June 2021 22:42:29

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Hi John,
Welcome back to the Victory build and look forward to watching your progress.
I'll leave the answers to your questions to the more experienced members on here.
Good luck.
Chris
jmmx15
#3 Posted : 23 June 2021 16:26:51

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Location: Crawfordville, FL, US
When building the 18' Cutter I came across a problem in the instructions. Under the Pack 12, Stage 118 instructions under the heading "Fitting out the 18 foot Cutter you are told to cut two (2) 105 mm strips for the thwarts. Before I cut these, I checked the measurement (I'm more used to inches than mm).

Turns out my Cutter is only just over 65 mm in length. 105 mm was going to be just a bit to long! After trimming and testing, my thwarts ended up being just under 60 mm. For those who've reached the Cutter, which is more of a bear to plank than the Launch, I suggest start your thwarts at 61 - 61.5 mm and trim down from there

Hope this helps at least one person trying to build the Cutter with sausage fingers like me!

--John
Gandale
#4 Posted : 23 June 2021 23:11:34

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Hi John, welcome back.. great to have you with us again. Looks like you're doing a great job on the ships boats, lovely work....Cool Cool Cool

I'll try to answer each of your questions in turn.

jmmx15 wrote:


1. How do you paint the brass floorboards in the boats? I wasn't happy with whatever I did on the launch but it won't be seen when finished. For the other boats I'm thinking of trying to scuff up the brass with a sanding stick, then very lightly prime it with my airbrush. After that I'm on the fence about trying to brush paint them or airbrush them. My ears are open for suggestions!

My method was to lightly sand the surface with fine grade sandpaper. Then brushed on a coat of Mr Hobby Mr Metal primer and left to cure for 2 days. Using my airbrush I then gave a fine dusting of matt black paint. Left to dry then fitted to the boats.

2. Now that the launch is finished, and will sit with it's 3 brothers for quite a while, should I lacquer or varnish it? I'm also wondering about spraying them with Future floor polish. It's used quite often by plastic modelers to protect their finished work

Either or... My preference was to use Vallejo matt and silk varnish applied with my airbrush. Would suggest you try painting and varnishing some test pieces to see if it turns out the way you want. Worked for me....

3. What do you think of the Victory add ons from Woody's Modelworks
https://www.woodysmodelworks.co.uk ? Some of them have my interest including the Gallery, Bow Detail, Beakhead enhancement, Entry Ports, Cabins, buckets and Water Level markers (I'm going to tile my hull) kits

Have never tried any of them so would be unfair of me to comment except to say that some of them do look good...

4. I've been using an electric plank bender for the small boats. I burnt myself once and found that I almost need 3 hands to use it with the form! Part of the solution may just be to put the form in a vice. I'm going to give that a try on the next boat. What has been your experience with the electric plank bender vs. the crimper with the razor blade?

I've used a number of methods to bend planks and have always reverted to using an electric plank bender. Find the strips will bend very easily when soaked in warm water until pliable. Once I have the necessary bend then I'll temporarily pin the plank in place and leave to dry, then shape and fit. There are many videos on the tube showing how to bend and fit strips, some very good viewing to be found there...

5. Can you also please point me to any good discussions about the use of planking clamps, pins, binder clips etc. when doing the hull planking? I'm leaning towards binder clips and limited use of pins.

I don't like pinning directly through planking strips if I can help it, I prefer to use map pins, pinned to the side of the plank into the ribs then removing the pins when the glue has dried. I compiled a topic on this very subject that you may find interesting..

https://forum.model-spac...spx?g=posts&t=25807



Hope you find the answers useful.

Regards

Alan

jmmx15
#5 Posted : 24 June 2021 12:59:02

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Thank you Alan for taking the time to answer my questions, of course, I have a follow up or 2!

How long did you soak your planks for? On the boats I found that just running them under the tap for a few seconds did the job but am sure that won’t work for the ship’s planks!

Can you attach more than one row of planks at a time using the map pins? Won’t they introduce e a gap, though very small between the rows?

Can you think of any major gotchas that you or others have come across during your build? I’m thinking of things like the cannons on the upper deck and their gun ports not lining up vertically? Or doing certain tasks earlier than what the manual says due to easier access?

I think the first few lessons I’ve learnt is that the plank bender will burn you, don’t scrimp on a cheap set of calipers, manicure sticks are awesome, get a good set of micro drill bits, and making a drawing of where the thwarts and oar cutouts go relative to the ribs really helps and the Dremel tool used in moderation is your friend!

—John
Gandale
#6 Posted : 28 June 2021 23:16:04

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jmmx15 wrote:
Thank you Alan for taking the time to answer my questions, of course, I have a follow up or 2!

How long did you soak your planks for? On the boats I found that just running them under the tap for a few seconds did the job but am sure that won’t work for the ship’s planks!

Can you attach more than one row of planks at a time using the map pins? Won’t they introduce e a gap, though very small between the rows?

Can you think of any major gotchas that you or others have come across during your build? I’m thinking of things like the cannons on the upper deck and their gun ports not lining up vertically? Or doing certain tasks earlier than what the manual says due to easier access?

I think the first few lessons I’ve learnt is that the plank bender will burn you, don’t scrimp on a cheap set of calipers, manicure sticks are awesome, get a good set of micro drill bits, and making a drawing of where the thwarts and oar cutouts go relative to the ribs really helps and the Dremel tool used in moderation is your friend!

—John


No problem at all John, am happy to be of assistance whenever possible.

Soaking the planking strips - how long they should be soaked for really depends on the type of wood. I found the birch strips provided in the Victory kit would need to be soaked in warm water for some 20-30 minutes. I soak until the strips become pliable.

Map Pins - my method is to attach a strip and pin along the upper edge. By the time you have one row fitted and start fitting the next row the glue will have taken hold. This means I remove the pins as I go and refit the pins to hold the next row.

As for glitches, follow the Official Build Diary. This highlights any potential pitfalls that were identified during the course of the build and things that need to be looked out for. Lot of builders didn't ensure the stern ribs, rib 30 was fully seated. They didn't notice this rib is prone to moving especially if you turn the hull over before letting the glue set. Check the seating of these stern ribs often until they are firmly glued in place.

Hope this helps..

Regards

Alan


tom.ganc
#7 Posted : 20 November 2021 19:05:09

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It's great to hear this news, we can't wait to see more pics from your build.

Of course we will be happy to help if you get stuck.

Happy building

Tom
jmmx15
#8 Posted : 16 January 2023 23:00:48

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Happy and Healthy New Year to all.

It's been a while since I've posted. I just seem to go in spurts of time where I can work on the model and longer periods where I can't!

I've finished all 4 of Victory's boats, I will post some pictures later. The anchors are about done (I broke one and am working on getting a replacement since I've been unable to fix it). I'm currently working on the 12 lb guns, the "real" ones on the carriage and the carronades. I have 3 questions at this point:

1. I have some good looking cannons and some not as good! How many presentable cannons will I need for the Victory itself? I'm not doing the cutaway but may build it to the side of the model with the left over cannons. From what I've seen, I think that I need 10 good looking cannons?

2. I've been looking at the nails for the cannons. Looking ahead, I've seen that when attaching the cannons to the deck the instructions say to drill holes through the carriages to insert the nails and nail the guns to the deck. I've seen a few pictures of Victory and I don't think that I've seen similar nails. It looks like a bear to get them drilled as well. My current thought is to ignore the nails and glue the cannons wheels to the deck when the time comes. What did you do with the cannon nails?

2. I'm doing the painted version of the model. I'm about to wire up the blocks for the carronades. How have you colored or finished the blocks on the model?

Interesting note while working on the cannons and carronade. I bought some Birchwood Brass black to turn the brass parts black. I've noticed that it didn't work on the "brass" strips of the carronade or the "brass" pieces for the wheels. It also did not work on the nails for the cannons. It worked fine for all of the other metallic pieces. I ended up priming and painting where the Brass Black didn't work. I'm guessing there are some pieces that look like brass but are some other alloy. All pieces were dipped in white vinegar then dried before putting them in the Brass Black.

Thanks in advance as always,

--John
delboy271155
#9 Posted : 17 January 2023 15:10:17

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Hi John, BigGrin

Unfortunately I can`t help with your questions as not built to where you are at, but its good to see you back with your Victory Build. Good Luck going forward.

ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp


Regards
delboy271155
(Derek)
COME BACK GUY FAWKES "YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU"






Plymouth57
#10 Posted : 17 January 2023 21:45:46

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Hi there John!
Like Delboy I haven't built this Victory (yet)BigGrin so I'm not sure about the numbers of cannons etc. I would say that regards the brass not going black in all cases, the brass that did go black is probably 'raw' brass in its natural state whereas the parts that didn't blacken are still real brass but probably with a clear manufacturer-applied lacquer to protect it from tarnishing. The problem is the blacking chemical won't penetrate the lacquer and so doesn't alter the brass itself. If its a brass strip you could try going over it with steel wool, that might remove the lacquer enough to let the blackening work.
With regards to the blocks, the best and easiest way to turn them black is to get a can of spirit based black or ebony wood dye. I'm using one from a DIY company called Rustins. Simply pour some into a container and drop the wooden blocks in to leave for a few hours (I go overnight). Then remove them with tweezers and let them dry out on some kitchen roll or similar. When they are dry they'll be a nice jet black and the spirit base doesn't raise the grain or make them swell up like water based dye or stain would. If the blocks are highly polished hardwood you might need to do them a couple of times, the standard softwood blocks do it in one soak.
Hope that helps and best of luck.

Robin.
First wooden ship: The Grimsby 12 Gun 'Frigate' by Constructo Second: Bounty DelPrado Part Works Third: HMS Victory DelPrado Part Works 1/100 scale
Diorama of the Battle of the Brandywine from the American Revolutionary War Diorama of the Battle of New Falkland (unfinished sci-fi), Great War Centenary Diorama of the Messines Ridge Assault
Index for the Victory diary is on page 1
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