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the forecastle bulwarks were shoulder high at trafalgar and not knee high as she is now, I believe this kit has the knee high ones, the only model I know of that includes the high bulwarks is the jotika
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willz wrote:the forecastle bulwarks were shoulder high at trafalgar and not knee high as she is now, I believe this kit has the knee high ones, the only model I know of that includes the high bulwarks is the jotika At the risk of another 'extended discussion' can you tell us what evidence your assertion is based on? I have checked with C Nepean Longridge's book whose Science Museum model of Victory shows a low rail with the hammock nettings above. Also the block model referred to in a previous post quotes: She is shown here after her ‘great repair’ of 1800–03 when the open stern galleries were removed and closed in, and a new, simplified figurehead fitted. She never had the solid bulwarks shown here but kept the more lightweight bulwarks (frames to house the hammocks in netting, which offered limited protection to the crew against small-arms fire). Otherwise the model shows ‘Victory’ as she would have appeared at Trafalgar. Mike T
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Do I see storm clouds on the horizon? Regards,
David
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Or is it another broadside....
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
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I most sincerely hope not David.
My concern is that we are all investing heavily in this project and I would hate to think that any models are spoilt by members of the forum being mislead by a seemingly factual statement which is unsubstantiated. Anything I have contributed to the forum has been based on at least one or another respected source and the origin quoted.
Mike T
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/03/2010 Posts: 600 Points: 1,959 Location: Solway West Cumbria
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Mike Turpin wrote:I most sincerely hope not David.
My concern is that we are all investing heavily in this project and I would hate to think that any models are spoilt by members of the forum being mislead by a seemingly factual statement which is unsubstantiated. Anything I have contributed to the forum has been based on at least one or another respected source and the origin quoted.
Mike T Thats why many of us on here have adopted the (mike T) anchor....even though i'm not going for a 100% accurate model (some parts painted some not)...when i want it "Spot on"...I know who to ask...Many thanks mike for your time spent in research..
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Mike Turpin wrote:I most sincerely hope not David.
My concern is that we are all investing heavily in this project and I would hate to think that any models are spoilt by members of the forum being mislead by a seemingly factual statement which is unsubstantiated. Anything I have contributed to the forum has been based on at least one or another respected source and the origin quoted.
Mike T I completely agree Mike, and I for one am grateful for your efforts I have to admit that I have come across this claim about the bulwarks being at shoulder height before. It was on another modelers website and curiously enough came up in a thread that was talking about the non existence of the Victory's entry ports on the Heller model. Sound familiar doesn't it. In the post he mentions that it was "now pretty widely accepted" that the bulwarks were shoulder high but I can find no reference to this claim anywhere else other than that website so I will remain sceptical until more credible evidence is forth coming. If you are interested the thread can be found here and is the sixth post down, fifth paragraph. Regards,
David
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Hi David
That was an interesting read, a moment of pure deja vu!
I'm going to keep out of any further pointless argument and concentrate my efforts where relevant on the published sources and links, as indeed many other forum members are doing!
BTW any ideas on what format you would like for a Trincomalee visit?
Mike T
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heres the quote dtgray
Mr. Bugler figured out, way back in the 1920s or thereabouts, that they'd been raised to shoulder height during the ship's last refit before Trafalgar. Dr. Anderson, who was in charge of the actual restoration, found out about that (as he acknowledged, quite handsomely and publicly, when Mr. Bugler's book was published a few years later) shortly after the carpenters had finished fabricating the knee-high, rail-and-timberhead arrangement that's on her forecastle today. Having spent a great deal of money getting that work completed, Dr. Anderson was (quite understandably, in view of the scarcity of funds for such things) reluctant to order it torn apart and replaced.
now bugler`s book cost`t over £200, and its only in three liberies, in the country,
now jotika used to supply a portsmouth conversion kit, and because of feedback stopped including it, and on some forum somewhere a customer emailed jotika to ask where the portsmouth conversion kit was, and this is the reply he got from them.
The 'Portsmouth Pack' is a separate bag of extra pieces and instructions providing everything required to build the forecastle bulwarks with timberheads, as Victory is currently in Portsmouth, rather than the solid bulwarks, as Victory was at Trafalgar. This pack was included in all of the kits sold for the first year or so of production however, feedback from customers and photos we have received showed that approximately 1 in every 25 people only were choosing to build the kit to the 'Portsmouth' configuration, as a result we chose to remove the Portsmouth Pack from the kits. The pack is still available to customers free of charge should they wish to build to the Portsmouth configuration, all we require is the kit serial number to confirm it has been registered.
If it is your intention to build Victory to the Portsmouth configuration, please let me know and I will get a pack off to you. If you are building Victory to the 1805 Trafalgar specification then there is no need for this pack.
Sincerely Richard Wright
JoTiKa Ltd.
so richard wright acually put in print, that the shoulder high bulwark were there at tragalgar, and jokita`s model is the latest on the market using the most recent research.
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Mike Turpin wrote:Hi David
That was an interesting read, a moment of pure deja vu!
I'm going to keep out of any further pointless argument and concentrate my efforts where relevant on the published sources and links, as indeed many other forum members are doing!
BTW any ideas on what format you would like for a Trincomalee visit?
Mike T At this point it's just a question of getting a date that will be fine for all those that want to visit. It will be a 3 to 4 hour journey for me regardless as to whether I take the car or train, but that is considerably shorter than getting to Portsmouth. Ideally anytime during the 2nd and 3rd weeks in August are good for me as I'll be off work so I can travel freely during those weeks. If it's earlier or later than that then it will depend on which dates are convenient for anyone else who'll be there, as my days of work vary from week to week and I'll have to work it out with the options available to others. Regards,
David
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
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Mike Turpin wrote:I most sincerely hope not David.
My concern is that we are all investing heavily in this project and I would hate to think that any models are spoilt by members of the forum being mislead by a seemingly factual statement which is unsubstantiated. Anything I have contributed to the forum has been based on at least one or another respected source and the origin quoted.
Mike T to be honest mike t, these people on this forum are not children, can you stop please jumping in with both feet, its a forum, not what mike t says, and also provoking you can only draw you into declairing what you know on the matter which is apparently nowt. how can you possibly agree with the block model`s reference when it was you who condemned it
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
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Mike Turpin wrote:Hi David
That was an interesting read, a moment of pure deja vu!
I'm going to keep out of any further pointless argument and concentrate my efforts where relevant on the published sources and links, as indeed many other forum members are doing!
Mike T
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Do I HAVE to bring the kitten out again? Schnellboots on back burner
Tools.
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dtgray wrote:Mike Turpin wrote:Hi David
BTW any ideas on what format you would like for a Trincomalee visit?
Mike T At this point it's just a question of getting a date that will be fine for all those that want to visit. It will be a 3 to 4 hour journey for me regardless as to whether I take the car or train, but that is considerably shorter than getting to Portsmouth. Ideally anytime during the 2nd and 3rd weeks in August are good for me as I'll be off work so I can travel freely during those weeks. If it's earlier or later than that then it will depend on which dates are convenient for anyone else who'll be there, as my days of work vary from week to week and I'll have to work it out with the options available to others. Hi David It's a long journey for you! I'm lucky just an hour(ish) along the road from Hartlepool. I have looked at the Trincomalee website and they do evening tours of the ship but if we added catering(?) could be an expensive option. I have e-mailed the Hartlepool Maritime Experience Website for suggestions as to what they can offer in the way of day-time tours. When I hear something I propose to open a new topic and invite those who are likely to be interested to offer their suggestions for how we might organise something. Will keep you in the picture Mike T
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That sounds great Mike, thanks Regards,
David
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I have recived a reply and set up the new topic, see what you think HMS Trincomalee Summer 2010 VisitMike T
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Oh my, I kinda feel a bit important like, excusing ignorance
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willz wrote:Oh my, I kinda feel a bit important like, excusing ignorance This remark is totally uncalled for. Grow up! Pam's shipyard is closed for now no more room!
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I have no idea why you think that members can ambush my thread, and do their best to ridicule me without any retribution. if you read the whole thread, which is mine you can see how it was ignorantly ambushed.
hence I excuse their ignoranc but if you think that blatant ignorance is fine well you will find yourself in good company on this forum
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willz wrote:I have no idea why you think that members can ambush my thread, and do their best to ridicule me without any retribution. if you read the whole thread, which is mine you can see how it was ignorantly ambushed.
hence I excuse their ignoranc but if you think that blatant ignorance is fine well you will find yourself in good company on this forum Willz I have taken time today to think out my reply to your post very carefully. Firstly as publicly as I rebuked you in my last post, I would publicly now offer you my most sincere apology. My only excuse is that I read your text as possible provocation likely to restart again a previous "heated discussion". I now understand your frustration was at a hijacked thread and how your text reflected this. Given that is an open forum with no moderation, I'm afraid this will happen again. You are right when you say there no excuse for ignorance but whilst we can be aware of this in ourselves, we have no control over the actions of others. Again please accept my apology and I will attempt mind my own business. Pam's shipyard is closed for now no more room!
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