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 Rank: Vice-Master      Groups: Registered
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Picture of supposedly HMS victory as a training ship, year not stated. However if it is the victory, it shows a gun port, ten back from the front in the middle deck, and it seems that they are using gun port 11 from the front for access. Although gun port 11 is convenient for the stairs on victory I'm not at all sure if this is victory. Does anyone know one way or the other http://www.flickr.com/ph...ct_ratio16x9/4192451006/
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 Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,051 Points: -13,308
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Hi. Not sure on the picture but have been told the Victory started as a two decker and was converted to a three decker at a later stage. Dont know how accurate this is but was told by someone who works in the Victory museum. Therefore your picture may well be Victory but I just done know for sure
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Joined: 22/03/2010 Posts: 236 Points: 709 Location: Falkirk
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Agincourt2510 wrote:Hi. Not sure on the picture but have been told the Victory started as a two decker and was converted to a three decker at a later stage. Dont know how accurate this is but was told by someone who works in the Victory museum. Therefore your picture may well be Victory but I just done know for sure Not sure who told you this,  but the Victory was never designed as a two decker. She was designed by Sir Thomas Slade to be a three decked 1st Rate ship of the line from the start. btw - Welcome aboard  Regards,
David
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Rank: Vice-Master  Groups: Registered
Joined: 13/10/2011 Posts: 851 Points: 2,628 Location: Leeds, Yorkshire
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Agincourt2510 wrote:Hi. Not sure on the picture but have been told the Victory started as a two decker and was converted to a three decker at a later stage. Dont know how accurate this is but was told by someone who works in the Victory museum. Therefore your picture may well be Victory but I just done know for sure It depends which Victory you are talking about. The Victory two before the current Victory was cut down to a two decker but the Portsmouth Victory has always been a 100+ gun three decker. I found this useful summary How many Royal Navy Ships called Victory? on the web.
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Judging from the lines and ovetall shape .....it does not look like it ...imho
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It could possibly be HMS Impregnable,used as a training ship at Devonport click hereRob Nolli Illigitimi Carborundum!!!Current Builds: HMS Victory, SV Thermopylae
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
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I am wondering whether the clue might be in willz post ShipsThe last post in that topic has pictures of Victory(?) at Portsmouth and Impregnable at Devonport(Plymouth), taken at roughly the same time. To my eyes the masts on Impregnable are cut down more than on Victory. So the picture on this post looks as if it could be Victory. I believe that they had to make a lot of changes to the bow to return Victory to her 1805 profile. Mike T
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Dontshootme wrote:It could possibly be HMS Impregnable,used as a training ship at Devonport click here No dontshootme the picture in your link is the HMS impregnable 121 gun first rate ship of the line, if you count the gun ports she has more than the photo that i posted of the mabee victory.
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,051 Points: -13,308
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wow, my greatgrandfather served time on the Impregnable at devonport. Comparing the first post picture and the Impregnable, they both to me look the same.  Just checked his service records - Impregnable - 2nd May 1910 - 26th August 1910
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To me, on both pictures, the figure heads and gunwhales are completely wrong to be HMS. Victory. Also, the entry ports on Victory were 7 gun ports forward of the stern. I do not think the ships are HMS. Victory.
TIS
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
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I know what you are saying Tiswas, but if you magnify the picture you can almost count 6 gun ports towards the stern from what appears to be the entry port. The fore-shortening makes it really difficult to be sure.
BTW the Impregnable was a 98-gun 2nd rate, the confusion with the 121 guns if that HMS Howe was a 121 gun ship renamed Impregnable when she replaced the former ship as the Devonport training ship. All very confusing.
Mike T
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,051 Points: -13,308
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There not. Training establishment HMS Impregnable was a training establishment started at Devonport in 1862, and active until 1929. As training ships were replaced or added to the establishment, each was renamed Impregnable when she took on the role: HMS Impregnable. When the warship became a steam and electrically powered ship there was less and less use for the "white wings" which made the old time frigate, one of the loveliest sights in the world, and in the handling of which British sailors had been pre-eminent. Much of the true seamanship was involved in the proper use of sails and on the training ships great importance was attached to the education of youngsters in this respect in the early 20th century. She was an old 121 gun ship of 1860, initially named HMS Howe. The ship still had the figurehead of Lord Howe, and then renamed HMS Bulwark, until 1886 when she was named HMS Impregnable, the training ship under the command of Captain D. H. Bosanquet HMS Impregnable, formerly HMS Howe, in the Hamoaze off Devonport Dockyard in the 1890s 
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
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Mike Turpin wrote:I know what you are saying Tiswas, but if you magnify the picture you can almost count 6 gun ports towards the stern from what appears to be the entry port. The fore-shortening makes it really difficult to be sure.
BTW the Impregnable was a 98-gun 2nd rate, the confusion with the 121 guns if that HMS Howe was a 121 gun ship renamed Impregnable when she replaced the former ship as the Devonport training ship. All very confusing.
Mike T the original training ship was only the second one to be originally named impregnable, the photo is of the howe, launched i beleave with the name bulwark then renamed impregnable, then her name went back to bulwark before shy was sold for her wood in 1921 (about the time victory`s future looked the same) all the training ships had their name changes to impregnable, (about six i think) because HMS impregnable was the name of the training institute
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,051 Points: -13,308
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HMS Impregnable was the original school ship between 1862 and 1888.
HMS Howe was HMS Impregnable between 1885 and 1911, and HMS Impregnable I between 1911 and 1919.
HMS Powerful was HMS Impregnable between 1919 and 1929.
HMS Inconstant was HMS Impregnable II between 1911 and 1919, and HMS Impregnable (Old) between 1919 and 1922.
HMS Andromeda was HMS Impregnable II between 1919 and 1931.
HMS Black Prince was HMS Impregnable III between 1910 and 1922.
HMS Ganges was HMS Impregnable III between 1922 and 1929.
HMS Circe was HMS Impregnable IV between 1915 and 1922.
HMS Caroline was HMS Impregnable IV between 1919 and 1929.
HMS Howe was built as a 121-gun screw First rate ship of the line of the Royal Navy. She and her sister HMS Victoria were the first and only British three-decker ships of the line to be designed from the start for screw propulsion, but the Howe was never completed for sea service (and never served under her original name) as she had already been made obsolete by the first ironclad battleships.
The highest number of guns she ever actually carried was 12, when she finally entered service as the training ship Bulwark in 1885.
Howe was named after Admiral Richard Howe. She was renamed a second time to Impregnable on 27 September 1886, but reverted to Bulwark in 1919 shortly before being sold for breaking up in 1921.
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
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sorry zep didn`t read your post
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
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dont think they were all training ships tho zep. Think some were prison ships.
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,051 Points: -13,308
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Oh Im sure, this was all I managed to find out after finding my greatgrand fathers service navy records. 'm sure there are mistakes in there:)
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,051 Points: -13,308
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This is a good write up on the training ships of the time - http://www.plymouthdata....l%20Training%20Ships.htm
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Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
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a lot of people get the victory and the impregnable (bulwark) confused. Found this web site selling photos of victory and the photo is actually the bulwark. But the other three photos on here do look like the victory, all clearly show the sixth gun port from the rear being used for entry, the one thats c.1880 clearly shows forecastle bulwarks next the thick black hammock netting. But is it the victory or not http://www.battleships-c...rs.co.uk/hms_victory.htm
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I spoke to my grandfather tonight he ,for a time, was a new recruts trainer on HMS Victory at portsmouth. He agrees that the picture is not Victory. he pointed out that at know time to his knolege was the victory modified to be used as a training ship so she has always looked prity much as she did after trafalger even when having timbers replaced. the Victory for some considerable time has been used for Royal Navy dinners etc and the point has always been to preseve victory to celibrate our great defeat of the French. so at no time has figurhead etc been removed. of corse he is 94 and his memoriy is not what it was!! “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
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