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 Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,051 Points: -13,308
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Admin,
Could we have a policy on the forum please whereby if a member posts anything which can be seen as being nothing more than a general moan or he/she posts pointless and unnecessary stuff about subscription/delivery problems on the open forum, then those posts are deleted forthwith??
It is already written in the Forum Rules - which seem to be constantly ignored - that this should not be done and yet it seems to be continuing unabated week in week out and I, as I'm sure many others do, feel that this is not the best use of the forum, since with only 15 active posts available at any one time and the forum growing ever larger, it regularly inhibits the viewing of what might otherwise be interesting reading for Forum members - which Subscription/delivery problems most definitely are NOT!!
Sadly, it is also a recipe for disaster with regards to DeAgostinis' future business by allowing defamatory written material to develop unchecked with regards to DeAgostini and in particular with regard to its' own image as seen by unregistered guests and how they might perceive things to be (wrongly)?
This is not a snipe at any member in particular, more a request to put an end to these boring posts that do nothing when it comes to engaging others in interesting conversation about models and modelling - which is what the forum is REALLY for?
What do other members feel? If you are fed up with seeing such posts then please add your point of view!!
Kev 
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 Rank: Elite        Groups: registriert, Registered Joined: 20/03/2011 Posts: 2,356 Points: 7,122 Location: UK
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SennaMentalMe wrote:Admin,
Could we have a policy on the forum please whereby if a member posts anything which can be seen as being nothing more than a general moan or he/she posts pointless and unnecessary stuff about subscription/delivery problems on the open forum, then those posts are deleted forthwith??
It is already written in the Forum Rules - which seem to be constantly ignored - that this should not be done and yet it seems to be continuing unabated week in week out and I, as I'm sure many others do, feel that this is not the best use of the forum, since with only 15 active posts available at any one time and the forum growing ever larger, it regularly inhibits the posting of what might otherwise be interesting reading for Forum members - which Subscription/delivery problems most definitely are NOT!!
Sadly, it is also a recipe for disaster with regards to DeAgostinis' future business by allowing defamatory written material to develop unchecked with regards to DeAgostini and in particular with regard to its' own image as seen by unregistered guests and how they might perceive things to be (wrongly)?
This is not a snipe at any member in particular, more a request to put an end to these boring posts that do nothing when it comes to engaging others in interesting conversation about models and modelling - which is what the forum is REALLY for?
What do other members feel? If you are fed up with seeing such posts then please add your point of view!!
Kev 100% behind you Kev but having to monitor all posts will cause its own problems.. I think members just need to reminded of the rules of the forum once in a while.. People are allowed freedom of speach but why the need to post something before it has happened is beyound me at times.. there are a lot of people who have been doing part works for years and I'm sure they will have a better understanding of how things work and pan out during their subscriptions so why not drop them a pm. I'm sure they will be more than happy to explain and put all those worries to rest..
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 Rank: Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 15/04/2010 Posts: 1,266 Points: 3,841 Location: The Quantock Hills,Somerset
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ALL BMW's should be shot!!  Rob Nolli Illigitimi Carborundum!!!Current Builds: HMS Victory, SV Thermopylae
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 Rank: Semi-Pro Level 1 Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/02/2011 Posts: 50 Points: 133 Location: London
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I must admit I do not post on here often but I completely agree that these post do not have a place on the forum. In my opinion this forum is for model builders to share knowledge with other builders/novices and also to share there builds.
I also understand that admin already have their hands full keeping the forum running and may not have the time to check every post. To help admin out would they and other forum users be happy for us to report as spam these posts?
Just a thought.
Regards
Simon
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 Rank: Super-Elite   Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/01/2013 Posts: 4,604 Points: 13,607 Location: Monmouthshire UK
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Completely agree, this is not really the place for subscription issues and dosent make good reading, this should be done privately directly to de ag customer services. The main attribute for anyone in this hobby is patience and if people really cant wait for their next subscription parts then why not get an "in between builds" kit as well.
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Rank: Master  Groups: Registered
Joined: 05/09/2012 Posts: 1,400 Points: 4,690 Location: Beaminster, Dorset
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I totally disagree. If someone wants to have a moan about deliveries or subscriptions then what's wrong with that? DeAg are a Postal Subscription Company and that forms a large part of the experience of the build, looking forward to the next delivery, expecting the Postman etc. I don't think you can start censoring other peoples posts because they don't suit (apart from offensive or derogatory ones of course). What next no posts about the Weather or News? It's like the TV if it bothers you, don't look at it. Personally I am interested in other peoples experiences of the subscription process, it will help me decide whether to go with a subscription or an outright buy for my next project.
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,051 Points: -13,308
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A gentle reminder for those who are unaware of the following which is at the head of the forum:Please be aware that the forum is a place for like minded people with an interest in model making to discuss model making! It is not somewhere that is equipped to solve customer service issues.
If you have a complaint about service or product please contact customer services. They are paid by DeAgostini to sort out any problems you have.
When you call or email them please keep a record of who you spoke to and when. Here is how to contact them...
http://forum.model-space...t.aspx?g=posts&t=94
If you are not helped, or your problem not resolved by them then you can of course send a message via PM to the forum Admin. You will need to provide your account details as your account cannot be identifies via your username. We will then try to find out with customer services why they are not able to help you.
However, don't PM Admin without first going to customer services, you will simply be passed you on to customer services.
Thanks,
AdminI might also remind members of the following:Any criticism posted into the forum, should be expressed in a constructive manner with a view to taking the issue under discussion forward.
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Rank: Super-Elite  Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/04/2010 Posts: 5,787 Points: 17,662 Location: Stafford, United Kingdom
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court orchard wrote:I totally disagree.
If someone wants to have a moan about deliveries or subscriptions then what's wrong with that? DeAg are a Postal Subscription Company and that forms a large part of the experience of the build, looking forward to the next delivery, expecting the Postman etc.
I don't think you can start censoring other peoples posts because they don't suit (apart from offensive or derogatory ones of course). What next no posts about the Weather or News?
It's like the TV if it bothers you, don't look at it.
Personally I am interested in other peoples experiences of the subscription process, it will help me decide whether to go with a subscription or an outright buy for my next project. Hi Andy, I totally disagree with you, you have not had the experience of 3 years of new issues being released, and the amount of negative and subjective posts made by people on the subject of deliveries and late subscriptions. If you were going to decide on weather a series is right for you on the ramblings of 90% of these people, then you would decide not to buy. Better to ask one of the long standing members who will give you a more objective opinion. I still believe all these challenges should be addressed to CS, and not to this Forum, in no way is it a benifit to the build enjoyment in my opinion, rather a distraction. There are a hand full of people who have a hidden agenda on this Forum and course mischief, this is unacceptable.any customer services issues must be addressed to CS Kind Regards Mike MWG BUILD DIARIES: HMS VICTORY, SOVEREIGN OF THE SEAS, SAN FRANCISCO II, HMS HOOD, HMS ENDEAVOUR LONGBOAT, HMS VICTORY X-SECTION, 007 DB5, NISSAN GTR, CUTTY SARK, RB7, AKAGI, BARK HMS ENDEAVOUR, HUMMER H1, MITSUBISHI ZERO.
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Rank: Administration  Groups: Registered, Forum Support Team, Administrators, Global Forum Support Team, Moderator, Official Builds Joined: 09/11/2012 Posts: 7,953 Points: 23,048 Location: East midlands
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I`m sitting in the middle of this thread, if the problems were not there in the first place, then no need to complain!,I have received false promises from CS, then PM`d Admin, over a week for response. Then on the contrary I`ve had a problem solved by Admin with brill results in a very short space of time. It does seem to me that some people get a result of their probs only by making it open on the forum. There are also ongoing problems affecting lots of people (Vic cutaway parts that seem to me to have gone on far to long and then can you really stop people making there feelings felt,(that`s an observation not something that has affected me personally yet). Last point - freedom of speech, we all have our opinions and I think that a forum is put up for people to discus all problems in a constructive manner. Regards delboy271155 (Derek) COME BACK GUY FAWKES "YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU"
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Rank: Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 05/09/2012 Posts: 1,400 Points: 4,690 Location: Beaminster, Dorset
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MWG wrote:court orchard wrote:I totally disagree.
If someone wants to have a moan about deliveries or subscriptions then what's wrong with that? DeAg are a Postal Subscription Company and that forms a large part of the experience of the build, looking forward to the next delivery, expecting the Postman etc.
I don't think you can start censoring other peoples posts because they don't suit (apart from offensive or derogatory ones of course). What next no posts about the Weather or News?
It's like the TV if it bothers you, don't look at it.
Personally I am interested in other peoples experiences of the subscription process, it will help me decide whether to go with a subscription or an outright buy for my next project. Hi Andy, I totally disagree with you, you have not had the experience of 3 years of new issues being released, and the amount of negative and subjective posts made by people on the subject of deliveries and late subscriptions. If you were going to decide on weather a series is right for you on the ramblings of 90% of these people, then you would decide not to buy. Better to ask one of the long standing members who will give you a more objective opinion. I still believe all these challenges should be addressed to CS, and not to this Forum, in no way is it a benifit to the build enjoyment in my opinion, rather a distraction. There are a hand full of people who have a hidden agenda on this Forum and course mischief, this is unacceptable.any customer services issues must be addressed to CS Kind Regards Mike Fair enough Mike you certainly have more experience of DeAg builds and Subs than most How many is it now?? But I do remember the anxiousness on my first Sub, the SOTS, as I hung around for the Postie everyday and counted down the days to the next delivery . But now, I'm so far behind, who cares, in fact they are arriving too fast .
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Rank: Pro  Groups: Registered
Joined: 06/05/2010 Posts: 233 Points: 708 Location: Leigh on Sea
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Well I joined the forum in May 2010 that's about a month after you Mike and yes there have been moans about subscriptions etc to my mind some objective some subjective ...I think it is a fine line between the two and Iam not sure that length of membership of the forum is any great arbiter of either...based that is on some statements of some long standing members past and present ...but to be honest I read something and decide for myself and do not need to be told ....(but I would of thought that "If you were going to decide on weather a series is right for you on the ramblings of 90% of these people, then you would decide not to buy."in itself is a tad on the subjective side).How do we or you know there are people with hidden agendas if the agenda is hidden it's hidden...I would of thought...and finally if somebody is to tell me what I MUST do it will be Mr T....you are just a member like the rest of us... As it is Mr T has reminded us of the rules so for my part I will follow them this post is added in good faith and "without prejudice" Dave C H.M.S Victory
H.M.S Victory X Section
H.M.S Surprise under the bench
D-51
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Rank: Super-Elite Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/04/2010 Posts: 5,787 Points: 17,662 Location: Stafford, United Kingdom
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Trotsky wrote:Well I joined the forum in May 2010 that's about a month after you Mike and yes there have been moans about subscriptions etc to my mind some objective some subjective ...I think it is a fine line between the two and Iam not sure that length of membership of the forum is any great arbiter of either...based that is on some statements of some long standing members past and present ...but to be honest I read something and decide for myself and do not need to be told ....(but I would of thought that "If you were going to decide on weather a series is right for you on the ramblings of 90% of these people, then you would decide not to buy."in itself is a tad on the subjective side).How do we or you know there are people with hidden agendas if the agenda is hidden it's hidden...I would of thought...and finally if somebody is to tell me what I MUST do it will be Mr T....you are just a member like the rest of us...
As it is Mr T has reminded us of the rules so for my part I will follow them this post is added in good faith and "without prejudice"
Dave C David, I thought we were having a debate? originated by Keven he was asking what members felt and to express their point of view on the topic. I was expressing my opinion by answering Andys post, I mentioned how long I have been an active member of this forum to indicate how many customer service enquiries I have witnessed, not to put myself forward as an expert. I am sorry you took my post personaly, I would never presume to tell anyone on the forum what they MUST do, I do not have the authority, as you point out I am just a member like you. Kind regards Mike MWG BUILD DIARIES: HMS VICTORY, SOVEREIGN OF THE SEAS, SAN FRANCISCO II, HMS HOOD, HMS ENDEAVOUR LONGBOAT, HMS VICTORY X-SECTION, 007 DB5, NISSAN GTR, CUTTY SARK, RB7, AKAGI, BARK HMS ENDEAVOUR, HUMMER H1, MITSUBISHI ZERO.
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,051 Points: -13,308
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MWG wrote:.... I mentioned how long I have been an active member of this forum to indicate how many customer service enquiries I have witnessed ....
My point exactly, there have been many, many such posts of that type since I joined and it is the very reason why I opened this thread, not because I am trying to deny anyone the right to free speech - I am not - and I am not aligning myself with one member over another in this debate but in my own personal opinion, Mike is right when he uses his length of membership to illustrate the fact that he has witnessed many CS enquiries. I have been a member of MS since March 2011, so not as long as some but much longer than others and therefore, like Mike, I am better placed than a relative newcomer to understand what a problem these constant CS type posts have become and at times it has become something of an epidemic. I think THAT is the only point that Mike was trying to illustrate with regards to his length of service on MS though I also agree with Mike that some appear to have hidden agendas and seem to take pleasure from stirring the pot when it comes to CS problems - at least that is the way it appears to me and I know of others who feel the same way!!
At the end of the day whether people agree or disagree with others' views about whether something should be done about the problem, the bare facts remain that the forum IS NOT the place to bring such matters up, it is for discussing models and model making as Tomick has rightfully reminded in his post as did I in my opening post!! It is in the forum rules and should be respected not ignored, otherwise this forum will no longer fulfil it's purpose as a modelling site and become more of a complaints bureau with a few bits of modelling chat thrown in!!
I accept that some people have a lot of problems with their subscriptions and deliveries, but the open forum is not the place to discuss it!! How many more times does Tomick or Admin have to draw attention to the forum rules before people will listen?
Kev
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Rank: Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 05/09/2012 Posts: 1,400 Points: 4,690 Location: Beaminster, Dorset
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You're always going to get complainers and negative comments, that's life. Then you're going to get complainers about the complainers and more negative comments. But in-between all that nonsense there's a lot of positivity and constructive stuff, so let's move on. DeAg ain't perfect, but who is? But if they can't weather a bit of criticism and become stronger for it, then WTF.
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I am older than Mike, in forum terms  and I have to agree that whilst a subscription issue can be very frustrating to the individual and one or two others may one to sympathise it does become a huge distraction from the pleasure of a model building forum. These conversations push other genuinely interesting threads off the radar but more to the point they do not resolve the issue, there is nothing the members can do about it Tomick can only say speak to customer service so I for one don't see what is achieved by raising the issue on the forum. It's very simple in my mind if its customer service related it die sent belong on the forum. “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
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 Rank: Amateur level 2  Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/09/2012 Posts: 40 Points: 96 Location: Surrey, UK
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Maybe if DeAg ran their subscription business better then there wouldn't be this problem on the forum......... But, saying that, I am a new member taking the plunge with SotS and have had no subscription problems whatsoever (I know, lucky me...) so I'm a happy camper - but, there has got to be something wrong with the amount of problems posted and reading some of them the frustration expressed is heartfelt and to be honest if I was getting treated like that then I would be posting on the forum too, after all - when all else has failed, where do you go........  Pete
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court orchard wrote:You're always going to get complainers and negative comments, that's life. Then you're going to get complainers about the complainers and more negative comments. But in-between all that nonsense there's a lot of positivity and constructive stuff, so let's move on. DeAg ain't perfect, but who is? But if they can't weather a bit of criticism and become stronger for it, then WTF. Agree with you to some extent Andy, complainers will nearly always solicit a response and perhaps that is their aim and perhape to the overall detriment of DeAg. However, I do think customer service issues should be dealt with solely by customer services, after all that is what they are paid for, modelling issues should be dealt with by the forum and its members on the hobby we all love so much.... Think the point has been very well made on both side and at the same time simply serves as a reminder to all members what is stipulated in the forum rules. I also agree this thread should be brought to a close and we should now move on..... Regards Alan
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Rank: Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 05/09/2012 Posts: 1,400 Points: 4,690 Location: Beaminster, Dorset
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jase wrote:I am older than Mike, in forum terms and I have to agree that whilst a subscription issue can be very frustrating to the individual and one or two others may one to sympathise it does become a huge distraction from the pleasure of a model building forum. These conversations push other genuinely interesting threads off the radar but more to the point they do not resolve the issue, there is nothing the members can do about it Tomick can only say speak to customer service so I for one don't see what is achieved by raising the issue on the forum. It's very simple in my mind if its customer service related it die sent belong on the forum. True, Jase, but when I had a problem with my back orders, CS were next to useless and it was only when I posted on the Forum that I got a response. But I must say that that response was immediate, responsive and totally brilliant. So what are we to do if DeAg CS are not up to the mark, at least we've got this brilliant Forum to sort us out. Despite all those 'Hidden Agendas'  If only a few more of the Companies I deal with had open and responsive Forums
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Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,051 Points: -13,308
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court orchard wrote:You're always going to get complainers and negative comments, that's life. Then you're going to get complainers about the complainers and more negative comments. But in-between all that nonsense there's a lot of positivity and constructive stuff, so let's move on. DeAg ain't perfect, but who is? But if they can't weather a bit of criticism and become stronger for it, then WTF.
Hello Andy,
I respect you as a member and I respect your views and your right to disagree, as that is what a debate is based upon, having two different groups of people with opposing points of view and the two then discussing them in the hope to find a middle ground. However, after two posts defending your right to disagree, you still seem to be missing the point here!!
I am not trying to get people to discuss whether it is right or wrong to complain about things, whether it is a part of life or not? What I am saying, and what Tomick and Admin are regularly saying, is that CS problems ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE POSTED ON THE OPEN FORUM UNLESS THEY HAVE TRIED THE PROPER CHANNELS FIRST!! Plain and simple, it says in the forum rules they are not to be posted - so why do members keep ignoring that basic rule?? That is the only point I am trying to make here. Please guys, just abide by the rules and put any complaints or queries through the right channels, not here on the forum where we are supposed to be discussing models and modelling, it is VERY BORING and not necessary. If people are going to continue ignoring the rules of the forum then what is the point of having that rule in the first place?!!
That is my only real point and I don't understand why it isn't clear what I am saying here?
I agree with your point about there being "a lot of positivity and constructive stuff" in between all the nonsense, but do you not agree that if people didn't keep posting "all that nonsense" there would be even more room for positivity?? In fact your very use of the word "nonsense" is quite ironic since on the one hand you want to allow people the right to complain and yet you are labelling it as nonsense. Ergo ... you think the complaints aren't of any value to the forum... and there you have my point!?
With respect,
Kev
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Think the solution here is straight forward. Where members feel they are not receiving the service they require or deserve from CS then they have the option to PM Admin, Mr T for assistance who we all know will do everything in their power to resolve the issue... Should that port of call fail then I also think members should have the right to air their views to other forum member but only after going through the right channels... Using the forum as a first port of call for any grievance should rightly be discouraged...
Regards
Alan
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