|
|
 Rank: Vice-Master       Groups: Registered
Joined: 21/04/2012 Posts: 747 Points: 2,233 Location: Tokyo, Japan
|
Hi Zero builders! I attached several pictures of a restored zero Model 52 displaied in Yusyukan(遊就 館). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%C5%ABsh%C5%ABkan
The place displays articles left by the fallen soldiers' in order to comfort the soul of the enshrined fallen soldiers in Yasukuni Jinja(靖国神 社) in Tokyo. Since the articles contain the weapons, we can see them there. But we can see not only the weapons but also fallen soldiers' cloths, tablewares, letters and other livingwares. Best Regards, Yutaro Yutaro HONMA attached the following image(s): DeAGOSTINI 1/250 the YAMATO, 1/250 the AKAGI.
Hasegawa Co. 1/350 Battle ship NGATO, 1/350 Aircraft carrier Akagi, Battle ship MIKASA.
Water line series 1/700 Battle ship YAMATO, HIEI, YAMASHIRO, Aircraft carrier HIRYU,TAIHO, Heavy Cruiser Myoukou, Ashigara, Nachi, Haguro & others.
|
|
|
 Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,051 Points: -13,308
|
Many thanks for sharing 
|
|
|
Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/11/2011 Posts: 200 Points: 506
|
Thanks for this. It gives us a good opportunity for colour matching and one thing I noticed...
It is me, or is the engline block painted aotake?
James
|
|
|
Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 27/06/2011 Posts: 434 Points: 1,309 Location: milton keynes
|
snapdragon wrote:Thanks for this. It gives us a good opportunity for colour matching and one thing I noticed...
It is me, or is the engline block painted aotake?
James james, im of the same opinion, the reduction gear housing is aotake dan Built - MP4/23, Zero, Deagostini Falcon, Model Airways 1903 Wright Flyer, Senna Mp4/4.
Working - Mclaren M23 1/8th scale to complement the Deagostini MP4/23 & Mp4/4
on the bench, Model Airways Sopwith Camel.
|
|
|
|
|
 Hi All Firstly thanks for posting Yaturo, secondly in my humble opinion the reduction gear housing is of a light blue colour this is more evident if you look at the front side view shot and not of the close up of the engine regards Andy  Current builds:-C57,Zero, Lamborghini Countach, Caldercraft HMS Agamemnon,Robi,R2-D2, MFH Cobra .
|
|
|
|
|
Hi All, Andy is correct it is and should be a light blue as per this build. http://forum.model-space...osts&t=3475&p=6
J “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
|
|
|
Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 21/04/2012 Posts: 747 Points: 2,233 Location: Tokyo, Japan
|
Hi Mr.T, James, Dan and Andy! Thank you for your comments on my post. I guess some of Zero builders are interested in Aotake color. I have attached additional pictures of another restored Zero in USA. It was restored under the up-to-date evidence and can really fly  at this time. I don't know what kind of paint is recommended by DeAGOSTINI UK, I usually use GIS "metallic blue green (C-57 or H-63)". It can be also used for 1/250 aircrafts on the Akagi. Best Regards, Yutaro Yutaro HONMA attached the following image(s): DeAGOSTINI 1/250 the YAMATO, 1/250 the AKAGI.
Hasegawa Co. 1/350 Battle ship NGATO, 1/350 Aircraft carrier Akagi, Battle ship MIKASA.
Water line series 1/700 Battle ship YAMATO, HIEI, YAMASHIRO, Aircraft carrier HIRYU,TAIHO, Heavy Cruiser Myoukou, Ashigara, Nachi, Haguro & others.
|
|
|
 Rank: Amateur Level 1 Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/07/2013 Posts: 36 Points: 81 Location: Queensland Australia
|
I found a forum topic on LSP where the case colour for the Sakai 12 is described as just "Grey" rather than the "Grey-green" that's specified for later models - and altho i haven't seen the instructions / paint guide for Tamiya's 1/32 A6m2, their site photos suggest a lightly blue tinted grey.
|
|
|
Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/11/2011 Posts: 200 Points: 506
|
What we have to remember is that there is both a blue aotake and a green aotake. Also the blue aotake can in certain light levels take on a greenish hue, leaning towards turquoise. It certainly is a very difficult colour to replicate as it is also neither matt, silk or gloss finish but a more translucent pearl finish. To me, Lifecolour has come the closest with this colour... https://airbrushes.com/p...cae4033bf4f319c2312d15c
It is more bluish than the colour block shows and it certainly has the metallic translucency. Maybe once sprayed on just needs a coat of the crystal clear from Humbrol just to give it a little extra. http://www.humbrol.com/s...stal-clear-150ml-spray/
I think that some testing is needed!!!! 
|
|
|
|
|
Tamiya have a solution that works well see my completed Zero build. its much much simpler http://forum.model-space....aspx?g=posts&t=3475“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
|
|
|
|
|
Hey snapdragon which internet magazine do you build for? i would love to see something you have finished “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
|
|
|
Rank: Pro Groups: Joined: 24/08/2009 Posts: 48,051 Points: -13,308
|
Snap, from your previous posts on Aotake, you ended up going to a paint supplier and a rattle can sample provided, which you tested and said "boy it is good".
Have you had second thoughts?
http://forum.model-space...aspx?g=posts&t=6415
|
|
|
|
|
Hi All Snap obviously you have not done all the research into Aotake as you make out, yes when Aotake was 1st applied it was the light transparent blue colour but just after its initial application for around 3 months in area's were being constantly exposed to the elements and oxygen tended to darken to the green Aotake that you seem to claim is another colour of Aotake on its own. This has been proved aswell as when parts that had been covered in Aotake and had the dark green colouring were striped down the places where the parts had contact with each other were the original blue Aotake. But as this is really a moot point as if I recall your now on your 3rd or is 4th attempt at the Zero, if I remember correctly you had parts sent from abroad and you winged then about the translation of the instructions for the model, then you subscribed to the UK issue. Also didn't you have another build of the Zero going on another website, as I say maybe the 4th attempt or are you just salvaging parts from the other three builds to make the 4th a compleat model. Just my opinion you understand but then again it might be better if you start a diary of things you say then you can remind yourself of posts made and can form a consistent set of posts on the forum Kind regards Andy Current builds:-C57,Zero, Lamborghini Countach, Caldercraft HMS Agamemnon,Robi,R2-D2, MFH Cobra .
|
|
|
Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/11/2011 Posts: 200 Points: 506
|
I haven't had any second thoughts about the Aotake provided by the Rattle can paint supplier. It is good and replicates the colour very well as some of my pictures prove. I just thought that I would point out alternatives. This lacquer was used by the Imperial Japnese Navy for interior corrosion control on their aircraft. It was made from phenolic resin, the first modern plastic resin synthesized by Leo Hendrik Baekeland of Belgium in 1906. It was marketed as plastics as well under the trade name Bakelite. It could be dyed different colors for jewelry or, if mixed with very fine sawdust and baked in a mold, produced insulation material used in electronic equipment. Aotake could be dyed with either blue, green or a mixture of the two colors. The basic resin was a dark brown tone. It protected very well against moisture but deteriorated quickly in direct sunlight. For this reason it was covered by green or gray-green paints in the cockpit areas. As you see from this collection of Zero artifacts it could range up to almost black in color depending on how much dye was added and how thick it was applied:  After quite a search around the net I found the above. Indeed! Colours are a can of worms. Maybe this could help us http://www5d.biglobe.ne.jp/~cocoro/subw117-2.htm
Hey if we don't try and experiment and research how can we learn and pass our findings around between each other? Surly we all want to make out zeros' as close to the original as possible? Yes! I did buy some zero issues from Italy through Ebay. I was hoping that I could get a full set, but it was not to be but it gave me a look at what was to come and you all have to agree that this is a fabulous and well done partwork and my only moan was having to translate Italian instructions  even Google translate struggled with a few words! When this was announced here I knew that it just had to find its way onto my bench. kits like these are ones that just prove what can be done my designers and manufacturers and built with care by us to make stunning displays that people just look at for hours. So I get problems with the build (ahem  ) and have to start again etc. but that is my issue! I would love loads of these under my bench to work on! I would love a 1/16 P51 just like they have done with the zero! but there aqain I would love lots more different aircraft as well! I will be starting to re-order packs shortly and all previous attempts and wreckage will be consigned to a box and sorted for spare parts especially those tiny screws that quite often disappear off into the recesses of the room followed by  !  Yes. I have decided to start again.... let's leave it there!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Hi Snap Yes I agree about the history of phenolic resin and the examples you have provided showing the various colours that it could become but again you say this was a deliberate colourisation of the resin before application to the metal parts. There are several examples that show a chemical reaction or darkening of Aotake during its early curing stage which have been closely examined and proven to be one coat only and applyed at the same time of construction the parts that became joined and therefore protected from the elements stayed the origonal blue colour. Also area's that were semi sealed but could be accesed like the rear fuselage stayed the light blue colour as the air was traped and therefore hindered the chemical reaction or darkening of the Aotake. Maybe with a little more thought about what you post at times people would not be so ready to point out the errors just my opinion of course regards Andy Current builds:-C57,Zero, Lamborghini Countach, Caldercraft HMS Agamemnon,Robi,R2-D2, MFH Cobra .
|
|
|
Rank: Pro Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/11/2011 Posts: 200 Points: 506
|
Andy, Let's agree that Aotake is a colour that is very difficult to actually get right because of the following. 1. The mixture of the colour could differ due to the two colours blue and green being mixed in different quantities with the resin. This could mean that every batch was different! 2. The shade of colour depends on 1 above and how much was applied. 3. Exposure to light and air caused a chemical reaction which also had the ability to further change the colour. Therefore I conclude that if we can come somewhere in the range of samples (including lighter variants) we can nail this colour down as it did have a wide variance.
|
|
|
Rank: Vice-Master Groups: Registered
Joined: 21/04/2012 Posts: 747 Points: 2,233 Location: Tokyo, Japan
|
Hi All I have read your posts here with a great interest. There seldom is such an eager discussion about ATOTAKE color even in Japan. I'm very glad to know zero models are loved so much in UK Best Regards, Yutaro DeAGOSTINI 1/250 the YAMATO, 1/250 the AKAGI.
Hasegawa Co. 1/350 Battle ship NGATO, 1/350 Aircraft carrier Akagi, Battle ship MIKASA.
Water line series 1/700 Battle ship YAMATO, HIEI, YAMASHIRO, Aircraft carrier HIRYU,TAIHO, Heavy Cruiser Myoukou, Ashigara, Nachi, Haguro & others.
|
|
|
|
|
snapdragon wrote:Andy, Let's agree that Aotake is a colour that is very difficult to actually get right because of the following. 1. The mixture of the colour could differ due to the two colours blue and green being mixed in different quantities with the resin. This could mean that every batch was different! 2. The shade of colour depends on 1 above and how much was applied. 3. Exposure to light and air caused a chemical reaction which also had the ability to further change the colour. Therefore I conclude that if we can come somewhere in the range of samples (including lighter variants) we can nail this colour down as it did have a wide variance. Is is not much more sensible to just say that any shade of Aotake you reproduce would be acceptable as there was so much variation in the real world!!!! Andy did a massive amount of research around this which was helpful in a number of ways, one being don't worry to much about the shade it varied! which i think is proven by the pic you lifted from the internet (do hope you got copyright permission to do that!!) For me Tamiyas solution works well as you can adjust the shade simply. Sorry Snapdragon but never liked your aerosol solution because:- 1 - the colour did not look right to me 2 - aerosol is ok for large areas but limited use for detail modelling de to lack of control (i think you proved this with your first Zero when you spray painted the whole frame) 3 - a costly and nedless solution. I enjoy a technical modelling debate as much as anybody, but i don think this is going anywhere as we already know the answers. “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
|
|
|
Rank: Amateur Level 1 Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/07/2013 Posts: 36 Points: 81 Location: Queensland Australia
|
From experience in seeing old furniture and boats and indeed in some cases aircraft - my take on Aotake weathering was fairly simple inasmuch as I strongly suspected the varnish yellows/browns with exposure and/or age - So as we all know by now, Yellow + Blue tends to produce GREEN  - but in recent times I've been confused about whether there ARE actually two different varieties of Aotake - ie. Blue and Green?? Yutaro it's indeed one of the great things about this sort of hobby that people from all places can find a common and mutual interest and respect - and like others here and in similar sentiment as that I have also toward the others here I'm grateful and honored to share your company and enjoy and appreciate the information you've provided  Kind Regards, Conrad.
|
|
|
|
|
@ Snapdragon "So I get problems with the build (ahem ) and have to start again etc. but that is my issue! I would love loads of these under my bench to work on!" - It is really nice to see you finally admit it is not your nephew repeatedly launching your models - well done. we all make mistakes have accidents and we all have different abilities thats what makes this forum so great we can all share and learn, as long as we are honest with each other.
I would love a 1/16 P51 just like they have done with the zero! but there aqain I would love lots more different aircraft as well! - I agree the format is great personally I would like to see something other than a fighter how about a vulcan bomber with working bomb bay. imagine the rib work on those delta wings.I will be starting to re-order packs shortly and all previous attempts and wreckage will be consigned to a box and sorted for spare parts especially those tiny screws that quite often disappear off into the recesses of the room followed by ! - So we are on Zero number 5? good idea to keep the spares. maybe follow the official build and take your time, plan what you do first and it could be the last you need to buy - good luck.Ok so the only thing left is the truth around building models for manufacturers and web magazines - I don't want a response to this it is not a question. lets just say your a competent model builder who, like everybody on here has something to learn. you will probably find you will be taken more seriously by others if you stop mentioning things that others rightly or wrongly don't believe.
This is my opinion obviously, but I do know it is also the opinion of others.
Jase“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain
|
|
|
|
Guest
|
US
